TTC suspects province is plotting a takeover

[MetroMan]

TTC suspects province is plotting a takeover
Rising speculation sparks city backlash

Oct 24, 2007 04:30 AM
TESS KALINOWSKI
AND JIM BYERS
STAFF REPORTERS
It's been quietly talked about in backrooms for months. But as the city's budget travails continue, the idea of a provincial takeover of Toronto's best brand – the TTC – is being discussed openly at city hall.

Rising speculation about a provincial takeover of at least part of the Toronto Transit Commission has sparked a backlash from councillors, and TTC officials are quietly assembling a public relations campaign to defeat a move they think could destroy one of Toronto's iconic services.

TTC chair and Councillor Adam Giambrone, who is adamantly opposed, says he's received no direct overtures from the province but is aware of the speculation.

With transit high on the public agenda, "the province might have an interest in managing that file directly and being able to take credit for it," he said.

The Greater Toronto Transportation Authority already has the province's mandate to plan the entire transportation network for the Golden Horseshoe. Its report is expected in spring.

It's also poised to take over GO Transit, fuelling suggestions that it could be the vehicle the province needs to co-opt all or part of the TTC as part of a harmonized GTA transit system that would garner provincial resources, parcel out service fairly across what is now nine transit systems, and make it simpler for commuters to travel across city borders.

The authority also gets to say how Premier Dalton McGuinty's $17.5 billion MoveOntario transit plan, which includes funds to extend the subway and build Toronto's ambitious light rail Transit City network, moves forward.

GTTA chair Rob MacIsaac has suggested everything is on the table. "I think there are opportunities for new things that haven't been thought of before, but I think 90 per cent of what we need has already been thought of and it's out there and we just need to ... assemble it," he said back in January.

A source inside the provincial government said there hasn't been any recent, serious discussion of a TTC move. But the commission is taking no chances.

In the next six months Torontonians can expect to see a public relations campaign on the TTC telling them why the city's transit deserves more funding from senior levels of government.

"The TTC does a lot of things very well and over the next six months we're going to have to start telling Torontonians a little about what is good about the TTC, about its efficiencies," said Giambrone. "We have to define what we want from a public transit system."

Toronto Deputy Mayor Joe Pantalone said he doesn't think the idea will come to fruition and that the TTC is a key part of the city.

"The City of Toronto is very protective of the TTC. It's essential to everything we believe in, from quality of life to economic development to the environment and so forth."

The GTTA, Pantalone said, is an unproven entity.

"The thought of them absorbing the TTC is asking for trouble."

But Toronto councillor and former GTTA member Brian Ashton said the issue has been discussed by transit officials.

"There are a lot of trial balloons being floated out there. I just don't know who's putting the air in them," he said, adding there are many options.

"The province might want to separate the bus from the subway system. One thing I know is that when the GTTA came along it was a natural platform that accelerates those discussions. GO eventually will be part of the GTTA. You could argue the TTC also should be part of it if the GTTA is be truly regional."

Ashton said taking the TTC away from Toronto would "lift a large part of the city's financial burden. The province would be able to manage and control costs. But the city has a long tradition and this would be like cutting the umbilical cord."

Mayor David Miller has denounced a provincial takeover as "incredibly short-sighted." He said it would probably mean higher fares and worse service.

But Councillor Karen Stintz yesterday said it would make sense for the province to run at least part of the TTC. The city also could make money by selling Union Station to Queen's Park, she said.

Pre-election comments from former Liberal finance minister Greg Sorbara, published in July, "suggests this is something that's being thought about, whether it's being considered seriously or not," Giambrone said.

Back then, Sorbara told reporters there might be a different way to approach Toronto transit – such as combining it with GO's rail operations – but went on to say that the discussion was premature.

It doesn't help, Giambrone said yesterday, that other Toronto councillors are raising the issue in public. For him, the really frightening possibility is that the province might hand the job to a private operator – an idea that gains traction when you consider that expanding the Yonge and Spadina subway lines will take the system into York Region.

But third-party transit operations will almost certainly lead to reduced service outside downtown, Giambrone said. "All over Europe you see privatization, and what you see is lower levels of service to other parts of the city."

Giambrone said the GTTA is on record as saying it doesn't want to be an operator. But he is among those GTTA board members surveyed recently on a catchier name for the regional transit authority – and logo ideas, including where that logo might appear on regional transit.

Although it's possible the GTTA's name could replace that of the province of Ontario inside TTC vehicles, it won't go on the outside, Giambrone insists.

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Why province should run TTC - and why not

If the TTC were to be taken over by the Greater Toronto Transportation Authority, here are some of the possible advantages and disadvantages:

PROS

One step closer to rationalizing a system that involves nine transit authorities.

Easier for commuters to cross city and regional borders.

Improve fairness of service across the GTA.

A stronger voice for funding at Queen's Park.

Standardized fare system.

Cost savings with bulk buys of equipment.

Would help Toronto to cut costs.

CONS

TTC service in low-demand areas may suffer as priorities shift to 905 region.

Loss of autonomy by the GTA's largest transit system.

Possible loss of iconic symbolism for TTC.

Opens door to zoned fare system, which punishes people in outlying areas.

 

[MetroMan]

I would be in favor of the GTTA taking over the more regional (and the most expensive) aspect of the TTC: the Subway system.

The way things are currently run, the TTC is a huge burden on the city's budget, one which would be taken off our shoulders should the province take it over.

 

[RedRocket191]

I would be in favor of the GTTA taking over the more regional (and the most expensive) aspect of the TTC: the Subway system.

The way things are currently run, the TTC is a huge burden on the city's budget, one which would be taken off our shoulders should the province take it over.

I tend to agree. The various rapid transit lines should be run by the GTTA, and they should also set minimum service standards and fare policies for all agencies to follow. It would then be up to the local agencies to decide what bus goes down what street.

Of course, it's only a matter of time before you hear from the "subway is the only profitable part of the TTC" crowd...

 

[ShonTron]

A logo and brand name, eh?

I see three scenerios:

This could be something loose, like the Chicago RTA model - responsible for funding Metra, PACE and CTA from state/federal sources (CTA is more autonomous, IIRC). There's a RTA logo on Metra and PACE vehicles (and possibly CTA vehicles, not fully sure).

Or it could be something like Translink in Vancouver. The divisions cover bus/Sea Bus, Skytrain, regional roads and bridges. West Vancouver never opted-in to BC Transit or Translink as they operate their own buses, but are integrated in terms of fares and route numbering. New York's MTA works this way as well.

There's certainly pros and cons, but it really depends on how far the province wants to go with this. I figure there will be a TTC, but just a diminished role for the civic-level body as GTTA TTC.

If the province wants a standardized, better GTA-wide fare system, that's great (and I'm talking about much more than a flashy RFID card). If it wants to coordinate service better, that's great as well, but I think there's s till a place for localized service delivery, the economies of scale become too big for one operator of buses in the whole system, for example.

 

[Jarrek]

It's about time. I can't believe it's taken them so long to actually propose to do this.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Not necessarily a bad idea, considering the funding issue and the ossified management structure with the TTC. I do think however GTTA should demonstrate their level of competence by running and integrating some smaller scaled systems first. Also, there needs to be a lot of transparency in terms of how any redistribution of resources will occur - right now, we aren't even sure about the political dynamic within the authority.

I do think it's a little bit of an overreaction to shoot down the idea so quickly, as per Giambrone et al.

Redrocket:

Of course, it's only a matter of time before you hear from the "subway is the only profitable part of the TTC" crowd...

But that is an issue depending on how things are set up, isn't it? I can just see a case where the province can declare "victory" in integrating regional transit through the GTTA, while leaving the financially unfavourable bus system to the city, with a diminished level of funding due to uploading of profitable services.

AoD

 

[CDL.TO]

Of course, it's only a matter of time before you hear from the "subway is the only profitable part of the TTC" crowd...

Well, it's a valid point. I don't care who operates the subway, I've been talking about the seperating the subway operations from the surface operations for years. I think it would be a good thing to put the GTTA in charge. But it wouldn't make much sense to take revenue away from the TTC without making up for it by increasing provincial subsidies. The problem is when you have Karen Stinz standing up and stating that we should be giving the subway to the province to save money when the actual effect would be the opposite.

 

[BobBob]

I'd be concerned that the profitable TTC services would now subsidize unprofitable services in the 905 rather than unprofitable services in the 416 as is the case. Especially if, as people have mentioned, the subway and buses become decoupled, and the city is put on the hook for the unprofitable buses while the subway subsidizes unprofitable RT in the burbs.

 

[CDL.TO]

Under the Canadian system the province has complete control over the TTC anyway. All of the benefits listed in the article of a complete GTTA takeover would be completely possible without assimilation if the province wanted it.

EDIT:

Evil proposal: the GTTA will announce that they will take over TTC fare collection but nothing else.

 

[ShonTron]

The problem is when you have Karen Stinz standing up and stating that we should be giving the subway to the province to save money when the actual effect would be the opposite.

Karen Stintz's 'brainwave' was to sell Union Station to the province as a revenue source - a one-time sale that won't solve any real budget issues.

This is why I hope that the GTTA takes over network planning, funding and regional coordination, even the rapid transit network, but there are aspects that worry me - like the idea that the subway generally makes money that helps to cross-subsidize the local bus routes that feed into it, and the service level standardization - which might lead to 416 riders directly subsidizing 5 minute service say on Major Mack, or seeing cuts in TTC surface routes in favour of suburban routes. But if the province wants to directly pay for the service standardization (without TTC routes being hit), fine by me.

First, I'd like to see the cabbageheads at GO standardize their services first - for example, if Stouffville can get hourly GO buses to Union, why not Brampton, 25 times the size?

 

[Sir Novelty Fashion]

Here's some scuttlebutt: a couple of months ago, I saw one of the new busses at Ossington Station with the following on its rollsign: "GREATER TORONTO TRANSPORTATION CORPORATION."

(I could have the last word wrong, but it was definitely a 'C'-word... the implication being that whoever it was who programmed it - seriously or in jest - was thinking of a provincial entity that was still "the TTC" or at least "the gTTC.")

(...of course, these are the same busses that sometimes are signed for "FEDERAL EXPRESS" and "REVOLUTIONARY." Why is that?)

 

[CDL.TO]

Yeah, they have been saying some strange things as of late. My favourite has to be "OUT OF SERVICE - EXPRESS" which I saw a couple weeks ago.

 

[299 bloor call control.]

maybe it was a sign that Google will take over the GTTA.. and launch G-TTC.

But seriously, I think provincial takeover of the TTC is a splendid idea. Maintain minimum service standards (i.e. maximum walking distance to transit service). I don't see why Adam-G and gang are up in arms. If they say the TTC is such a well run operation, they shouldn't have to worry, anything the TTC runs today will no doubt continue to run in the future if it's that well run.

The pro/con list on the Star was laughable... two of the four cons are sketchy at best. The suburban services run by the TTC are running fine and within financial standard (or the TTC woudln't be running it in the first place), and an opened door to a zonal fare system is actually a good thing. Local politicians have been too chicken to do it for too long. As for the TTC brand, there's nothing to say you can't figure out a way to integrate the old brand into a new one... and autonomy, well... scrapping the politico-run Commission can arguably be a good thing.

Oh wait. I just argued down all four of their so called "cons".

 

[junctionist]

Prior to reading this forum, I didn't think a subway line could bring in profits, what with the high maintenance and operating costs. But then they can't be that high with good infrastructure and equipment, and ridership is high. How much money does it bring in?

If the subway is profitable, then a strategically placed northern east/west line could add funds for bus lines. You'd have buses from the northern suburban regions such as York region feeding into this line. Fare integration would also encourage the use of this line.

 

[ShonTron]

Yeah, they have been saying some strange things as of late. My favourite has to be "OUT OF SERVICE - EXPRESS" which I saw a couple weeks ago.

That one cracked me up (I see that all the time in my part of town). Another one I saw was "OUT OF SERVICE - DETOUR ON ROUTE", which I thought was pretty funny as well. And then there's "I'M A NEW BUS" or "THE FUTURE IS HERE" exposures - as if they want us to be excited about %^&$# Orion VIIs.