TTC surface stop spacing

[nfitz]

Curb cuts at all the stops? That's not going to happen.

That's the plan - or else you can't get the wheelchairs from the sidewalk to the ramp. They've clearly said "people with mobility difficulties and strollers have step-free access to enter the low floor vehicle". As far as I understand, the money is in the budget, and they've got 6 years to do it. It's not a big of an undertaking compared to the cities efforts to make all 4 corners of an intersection accessible.

 

[Paleo]

That's the plan - or else you can't get the wheelchairs from the sidewalk to the ramp. They've clearly said "people with mobility difficulties and strollers have step-free access to enter the low floor vehicle". As far as I understand, the money is in the budget, and they've got 6 years to do it. It's not a big of an undertaking compared to the cities efforts to make all 4 corners of an intersection accessible.

I have not seen any document stating that they will be putting curb cuts through out the entire system. Can you post it?

I do remember reading about Roncesvalles and the circumstances there that made the curb cuts acceptable. I do not see the city doing this in driving lanes of downtown thoroughfares.

 

[car4041]

I have not seen any document stating that they will be putting curb cuts through out the entire system. Can you post it?

I do remember reading about Roncesvalles and the circumstances there that made the curb cuts acceptable. I do not see the city doing this in driving lanes of downtown thoroughfares.

I think you're misunderstanding what's meant by "curb cut" -- it refers to places where the sidewalk ramps down to the level of the street, like at the corners of all intersections. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curb_cut

What's on Roncesvalles are "bump-outs".

 

[nfitz]

I have not seen any document stating that they will be putting curb cuts through out the entire system. Can you post it?

To be fair, I haven't seen the word "curb cut" used. Simply that improvements are planned for stops to improve accessibility. I don't know what this would be other than a curb cut.

I've seen this mentioned, briefly, many times. Here's one example: In conjunction with the introduction of the new streetcars, improvements are being planned for existing streetcar platforms and many on-street stops in the streetcar network to improve accessibility to the new low-floor streetcars fleet. Engineering and design work is underway to move this initiative forward. Here's some more links that discuss it:

http://www3.ttc.ca/TTC_Accessibilit..._Transit_Services_Plan_2009_Status_Report.jsp
http://www3.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Co...upplementary_Reports/Accessible_Transit_S.pdf

I do not see the city doing this in driving lanes of downtown thoroughfares.

I'd assume they'd just lower the elevation at the edge of the sidewalk the same way they do for a pedestrian crossing - a curb cut. Though if they were smart, I'd raise the asphalt up as well, and paint it a different colour, to discourage cars from blowing through the doors.

Not sure the surprise here - how will they meet the Ontarians with Disabilities Act otherwise?

 

[Paleo]

I don't see anything on there that suggests "all the stops".

It sounds more like they're planning on upgrading existing platforms (islands and St Clair/Spadina platforms) and some on-street stops.

If I remember there were legal limits to the permissible grade from the ramps so I don't know if a curb cut would (ahem) cut it.

 

[Paleo]

I think you're misunderstanding what's meant by "curb cut" -- it refers to places where the sidewalk ramps down to the level of the street, like at the corners of all intersections. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curb_cut

What's on Roncesvalles are "bump-outs".

Yes that is what I misunderstood. Though having one at every stop seems excessive and it doesn't seem to fix the grade/ramp length issue I have read about. Keep in mind not all bus stops are accessible.

 

[nfitz]

I don't see anything on there that suggests "all the stops".

And as we've been discussing, hopefully some stops will simply be dropped ... when I said all the stops, I was referring to the ones they wouldn't drop. Of course some are already accessible, so wouldn't need upgrading.

It sounds more like they're planning on upgrading existing platforms (islands and St Clair/Spadina platforms) and some on-street stops.

The words they used were "many" rather than "some". Presumably the others are already accessible, or will be closed. I have a hard time seeing them make the Sunday stops accessible, and yet these are perhaps the ones which would have the greatest percentage of accessible usage.

If I remember there were legal limits to the permissible grade from the ramps so I don't know if a curb cut would (ahem) cut it.

You may well be correct, and an elevated asphalt surface might be required, like you see at some pedestrian crossings.

 

[kEiThZ]

He gets that support because either a) people are stupid or b) just looking for something to reinforce entrenched beliefs. Take your example. Have you looked at bus stop placing? There are bus stops outside every subway station too.

He won because lots of folks who live in Scarborough, Etobicoke and North York have 1.5-2hr long commutes to work. They aren't stupid. They know the LRTs won't do all that much for them (particularly if you're not on an LRT route ie, say on Finch or Lawrence and not on Sheppard).

The people want speed. They associate subways with speed. And that's why they pick any politician who offers them subways every time. Calling them "stupid" or saying that they are looking to reaffirm "entrenched beliefs" is simply not going to work. They care more about their long commutes than your name calling.

 

[Paleo]

He won because lots of folks who live in Scarborough, Etobicoke and North York have 1.5-2hr long commutes to work. They aren't stupid. They know the LRTs won't do all that much for them (particularly if you're not on an LRT route ie, say on Finch or Lawrence and not on Sheppard).

The people want speed. They associate subways with speed. And that's why they pick any politician who offers them subways every time. Calling them "stupid" or saying that they are looking to reaffirm "entrenched beliefs" is simply not going to work. They care more about their long commutes than your name calling.

I'm sorry but if you bought what Ford was selling before the election, it's an apt word. Guess what, even if we built the precious subways he was proposing, many people in Scarborough would STILL face 1.5+ hour commutes and nothing would have changed for most people in Etobicoke.

 

[Justin10000]

I'm sorry but if you bought what Ford was selling before the election, it's an apt word. Guess what, even if we built the precious subways he was proposing, many people in Scarborough would STILL face 1.5+ hour commutes and nothing would have changed for most people in Etobicoke.

Exactly. It's amazing people believe a 4-5 station subway extension will help Scaberians. There IS more to Scarborough than just Sheppard, and STC.
This obsession with subways is sad.

 

[Palma]

He won because lots of folks who live in Scarborough, Etobicoke and North York have 1.5-2hr long commutes to work. They aren't stupid. They know the LRTs won't do all that much for them (particularly if you're not on an LRT route ie, say on Finch or Lawrence and not on Sheppard).

The people want speed. They associate subways with speed. And that's why they pick any politician who offers them subways every time. Calling them "stupid" or saying that they are looking to reaffirm "entrenched beliefs" is simply not going to work. They care more about their long commutes than your name calling.

When was Etobicoke ever going to get subways? Eglinton was never going to be a subway. These people want subways to increase the value of their property and most likely would never use it. I am all for subways and think Eglinton should be an actual subway not Fords false version. But it looks like that will never happen., i do and have always used the subway to go to work

 

[11th]

When was Etobicoke ever going to get subways? Eglinton was never going to be a subway. These people want subways to increase the value of their property and most likely would never use it. I am all for subways and think Eglinton should be an actual subway not Fords false version. But it looks like that will never happen., i do and have always used the subway to go to work

Only former York and East York do not have subways. Eglinton was to have a subway, Harris cancelled it. The previous administration created Transit City, but left Eglinton as an LRT route with around 10km of tunneled sections, and locked the city into LRT vehicles contracts; thus denying it ever to be fixed with the proper technology (which you also agreed to be subway/HRT).

 

[Palma]

Yes I am aware Harris cancelled subway on Eginton, I meant that with Transit city or Ford;'s plan it never was going to be a subway. But with the city locked into LRT vechicles. Since subways cost more I don't see why the city would be charged to get out of LRT if they were now buying more expensive subways cr from the same company. I doubts the LRT have even started to be built.

 

[CDL.TO]

Yes I am aware Harris cancelled subway on Eginton, I meant that with Transit city or Ford;'s plan it never was going to be a subway. But with the city locked into LRT vechicles. Since subways cost more I don't see why the city would be charged to get out of LRT if they were now buying more expensive subways cr from the same company. I doubts the LRT have even started to be built.

Subway cars are cheaper than LRT vehicles.

 

[BurlOak]

Yes I am aware Harris cancelled subway on Eginton, I meant that with Transit city or Ford;'s plan it never was going to be a subway. But with the city locked into LRT vechicles. Since subways cost more I don't see why the city would be charged to get out of LRT if they were now buying more expensive subways cr from the same company. I doubts the LRT have even started to be built.

It would have been much easier to change the vehicle type a year ago - when the ink on the contract was still wet. By sticking with the LRT vehciles, they (the Province?) also made the Ford plan look more foolish and helped ensure it would eventually be defeated and we could revert to Transit City.