W. K. Lis
Superstar
There are other stops (streetcar AND bus) that should be dropped as well.
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TTC surface stop spacing
- Thread starter Nick.
- Start date
There are other stops (streetcar AND bus) that should be dropped as well.
picard102
Senior Member
Fail. This seems like the opposite of what should have happened based on the layout of the stops and the general direction people travel to from the stops.
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ShonTron
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I wrote about it and got it up to Spacing's blog late last night (hat tip to CDL.TO for the heads up). Of course, I see a very similar article posted the next morning on another, bigger blog more known for hipster fashion and best-of lists.
DSC
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They are looking at all stops (usually as road work is happening). They are proposing to drop stops on Sherbourne when Lower Sherbourne is re-built this summer. Last year they eliminated two at Howard Street, this year they want to get rid of the two at Front Street and the southbound one just north of the rail bridge. I had no problem with the Howard Street ones nor with the proposed elimination of the southbound one at the rail bridge but the two at Front are very heavily used. It is clearly not easy to balance customer convenience for getting on/off and customer convenience for fewer stops and greater potential speed.
ShonTron
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The Front Street ones are well used, and not ones that I'd like to see removed. They're also at traffic signals. Front Street is also the first stop on Sherbourne northbound (as it loops via Queen's Quay, Jarvis and Esplanade). The Howard Street stops were expendible, being so close to the main subway stop.
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nfitz
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If the thread was about the opportunity to leverage the change in stop spacing to switch to farside stops and install transit priority, then I'd agree with you.
But it's a separate issue really.
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Yes, that's why I think they should be retained.The argument I got from a quite intelligent TTC person was that the new guidelines say stops should be more than 300 metres apart and that Front is 288 from The Esplanade and closer to King (which is (temporarily) removed. As I said in my first post, I can understand the need to look at stop spacing but one also needs to look at usage and 'geography'. In addition there is a (ghastly) proposal to put 1600 new condos on the Acura site and 300 on the ex-Greyhound one right beside these front street stops. P Apparently, Councillors will be consulted so perhaps a note to Pam McConnell?
ShonTron
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I would. I think you have a good argument to retain it.
One proposed stop to be removed is Victoria and Queen, one that I support the removal of. I ended up sucked into a Twitter flamewar with some gentleman who was quite upset that I should say that the Victoria St. stop, only 90-95 metres from Yonge Street, should be removed, because of the hospital there. This ignores the fact that this is one of the closest stops anywhere in the system (maybe the closest) and the new streetcars are going to be longer, with all door boarding that will mitigate an additional walk to the stop, especially westbound. Some people will argue for or against anything.
nfitz
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I agree that it's close together. My argument for keeping it though, isn't related to the hospital. During rush-hour, the traffic is often very slow through there, and the streetcar invariably has to sit on that light anyways. And now those on the streetcar will have to stand there, unable to get off and walk to the subway?
CDL.TO
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Google says it's 170m to the stop on the Esplanade, and 110m to King once that stop is back in place. In total only 280m! I can't see what the issue is here!
"It's well used" isn't a very good justification. King and Esplanade will just both become a bit more busy.
This type of short-sighted thinking is why this exercise is likely doomed to failure. "Removing stops is OK as long as you don't expect ME to walk an extra 1-2 minutes!"
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It's actually not MY stop and my point was not that it is wrong to have stop distance standards but that other factors such as usage and 'geography' ought to be considered too. I certainly agree it will be like opening a hornets' nest and if they are doing it they need to proceed carefully and listen to other points of view and why certain stops may not fit their criteria but should still be retained.
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Just got Pam McConnell's e-newsletter of today's date:
TTC to Consider Removing Transit Stops
I was very troubled to learn that at the TTC meeting on Tuesday, January 28, 2014, the Commission will consider a report that will set in motion a process to remove stops on our bus and streetcar routes. This significant move is being undertaken without proper notice or consultation with our communities or the TTC riders who will be affected.
The five page report to the Commission (available HERE) claims that the move is to “improve pedestrian safety” by removing mid-block stops and having them located close to a traffic signal. This will mean that heavily used mid-block stops, such as the one that serves parents and students at Lord Dufferin School, will be eliminated without concern for the passengers or the distances or conditions they will need to walk.
The report also recommends placing stops at minimum distances, stating that the “appropriate distance between stops” offers “less disruptive travel”. One of the examples that is given is the removal of the streetcar stop at Victoria Street, near St. Michael’s Hospital. Anyone who is familiar with that stop at rush hour knows that a significant number of people debark there in the morning. Forcing the passengers to load and unload exclusively at Yonge Street will not improve travel times or rider convenience. Although not in the report, the TTC are proposing to elimnate the Front Street stop for the Sherbourne bus, using this rationale.
These recommendations are a backdoor attempt to reduce service. They do not take into account the way that passengers use the system, transportation needs of the area, or the various uses near the stops in question. Rather than creating a rational terms of reference to examine the service in neighbourhoods, the staff are relying on a cheap and cheerful cookie cutter approach. Although the report promises a follow up report on the implications and a “plan for consulting with affected Councillors” there is no plan for consulting with the affected riders. This approach also sets a piecemeal justification for each stop.
I am committed to ensuring that our transit works for our community, and that all changes receive proper input from residents. I invite you to make a your voice heard at the Commission.
Members of the public may make deputations at the TTC meeting. Requests to appear as a speaker will be accepted in writing until Noon on Monday, January 27. You may send an email to gso@ttc.ca. You may also make a written submission.
The TTC meeting is on Tuesday, January 28, at 1:00 pm in Committee Room 1, City Hall.
TTC to Consider Removing Transit Stops
I was very troubled to learn that at the TTC meeting on Tuesday, January 28, 2014, the Commission will consider a report that will set in motion a process to remove stops on our bus and streetcar routes. This significant move is being undertaken without proper notice or consultation with our communities or the TTC riders who will be affected.
The five page report to the Commission (available HERE) claims that the move is to “improve pedestrian safety” by removing mid-block stops and having them located close to a traffic signal. This will mean that heavily used mid-block stops, such as the one that serves parents and students at Lord Dufferin School, will be eliminated without concern for the passengers or the distances or conditions they will need to walk.
The report also recommends placing stops at minimum distances, stating that the “appropriate distance between stops” offers “less disruptive travel”. One of the examples that is given is the removal of the streetcar stop at Victoria Street, near St. Michael’s Hospital. Anyone who is familiar with that stop at rush hour knows that a significant number of people debark there in the morning. Forcing the passengers to load and unload exclusively at Yonge Street will not improve travel times or rider convenience. Although not in the report, the TTC are proposing to elimnate the Front Street stop for the Sherbourne bus, using this rationale.
These recommendations are a backdoor attempt to reduce service. They do not take into account the way that passengers use the system, transportation needs of the area, or the various uses near the stops in question. Rather than creating a rational terms of reference to examine the service in neighbourhoods, the staff are relying on a cheap and cheerful cookie cutter approach. Although the report promises a follow up report on the implications and a “plan for consulting with affected Councillors” there is no plan for consulting with the affected riders. This approach also sets a piecemeal justification for each stop.
I am committed to ensuring that our transit works for our community, and that all changes receive proper input from residents. I invite you to make a your voice heard at the Commission.
Members of the public may make deputations at the TTC meeting. Requests to appear as a speaker will be accepted in writing until Noon on Monday, January 27. You may send an email to gso@ttc.ca. You may also make a written submission.
The TTC meeting is on Tuesday, January 28, at 1:00 pm in Committee Room 1, City Hall.
Canadian Chocho
Active Member
You're forgetting that this is a hospital, not a mall or some other attraction. Who frequents hospitals? It is the sick and the elderly, just because 90-95m may not seem like much to an able bodied person, it could very well be perceived as a considerable distance to those in wheelchairs and in need of other aids to get around, particularly in the type of weather we are currently having where once again the most vulnerable are the elderly and sick. It's a worthy argument to make.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
If they are incapable of walking 100 meters, i think weeltrans may be a suitable option for them.
ehlow
Senior Member
I'm worried that most people think that more stops = better service. They don't realize the affect it has on speed, or how extremely close some of these stops are.