TTC: Streetcar Network

[steveintoronto]

Visiting San Francisco this week for fleet week air show. And look what rolls past! I'm a kid in 1980s Toronto again.

I had to do a double take re the extra pole on top. A little digging explains:

E Line A proposal to extend streetcar service along the length of the Embarcadero, from Fisherman's Wharf to the CalTrain commuter rail station at 4th and King Streets, was made early on. Following the opening of the F Line, passengers wishing to make that journey had to transfer from the Streetcar to the Light Rail at Embarcadero Station. A single vehicle ride was the vision. Since the route from Fisherman's Wharf to the Ferry Building was designed for streetcars, and the route from Embarcadero to 4th and King was designed for light rail,various modifications at light rial platforms east of the Ferry Building were necessary to operate streetcars. Also there is no turning loop at the east end, so double-end streetcars (with operating controls at both ends) were needed. MUNI had already rehabilitated several double-end PCC cars for service on the F Line, and additional ones were sent to Brookville for rebuilding. Weekend service was inaugurated August 1, 2015, with daily service beginning in April 2016.
[...]

http://www.downtowntrolley.org/othercities/index.php?category_id=1580

See also:
https://www.streetcar.org/streetcars/1074-1074-toronto-canada/

 

[Admiral Beez]

Also visited HMCS Vancouver. It was nice to step onto Canadian territory for an hour.

That streetcar made me nostalgic. Why can't we run our old cars on regular service like they do here?

 

[Steve X]

That car isn't from Toronto. It was painted in honour of the TTC fleet.
https://www.streetcar.org/streetcars/1074-1074-toronto-canada/

 

[Admiral Beez]

That car isn't from Toronto. It was painted in honour of the TTC fleet.
https://www.streetcar.org/streetcars/1074-1074-toronto-canada/

Thanks Steve, that makes much more sense.

Off to Alcatraz today.

 

[smallspy]

I am now really starting to think they just named it in this stupid way because they didn't want to look like they were actually plagiarizing @reaperexpress

They didn't change the name or number of the route because people are resistant to change. They will likely do so if they decide to make this permanent in a year or so - but they first need people to forget about the 514.

This is why whenever the TTC does a renumbering, like the massive one they did in the fall of 2016, they rolled out the changes in stages.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[micheal_can]

They didn't change the name or number of the route because people are resistant to change. They will likely do so if they decide to make this permanent in a year or so - but they first need people to forget about the 514.

This is why whenever the TTC does a renumbering, like the massive one they did in the fall of 2016, they rolled out the changes in stages.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

What would they rename them to?

 

[Richard White]

What would they rename them to?

The better question is why would they? If you just changed the name and number of the route to simplify things, why would you change it again?

IF they renumbered the route, the better thing to do would be to reintroduce the 514. Easy peasy lemon squeazy.

 

[Streety McCarface]

They didn't change the name or number of the route because people are resistant to change. They will likely do so if they decide to make this permanent in a year or so - but they first need people to forget about the 514.

This is why whenever the TTC does a renumbering, like the massive one they did in the fall of 2016, they rolled out the changes in stages.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

But why even forget the 514? The New Routing for the 504A runs for the majority of the length of the 514. I guess some people would be confused at the Dufferin Gate loop when all they see are 504s, but even then, that can easily be mitigated with a sign or two. It wouldn't require changing the platform signs again after a year. This change seems to be permanent.

504 and 514 both end with 4, which seems to indicate King Street as the main artery, so using 514 makes complete sense in that way as well.

 

[reaperexpress]

Isn't it ironic though that your plan is what is going be in effect. Maybe somebody from TTC Planning views this thread.

I am now really starting to think they just named it in this stupid way because they didn't want to look like they were actually plagiarizing @reaperexpress

There is no such thing as plagiarizing a transit line. If they had taken my map and just changed the letters, then that would be plagiarism (of the map), but ideas to improve transit are not proprietary. If the change results in more reliable service on the 504 and reduced congestion at its terminals, then seeing that is more than enough compensation for me.

And anyway, I did describe my proposal to someone from TTC Planning around the time of that post, and they said they were already analyzing that option. Swapping the branches along with the Low-Floor conversion is an obvious option to reduce congestion at Dundas West and Broadview, so it's not surprising we both came up with the same solution to the same problem independently.

But why even forget the 514? The New Routing for the 504A runs for the majority of the length of the 514. I guess some people would be confused at the Dufferin Gate loop when all they see are 504s, but even then, that can easily be mitigated with a sign or two. It wouldn't require changing the platform signs again after a year. This change seems to be permanent.

504 and 514 both end with 4, which seems to indicate King Street as the main artery, so using 514 makes complete sense in that way as well.

The 504A/504B nomenclature is consistent with other TTC routes with overlapping branches but different terminals such as the 97A/B/F Yonge and the 939A/B/C Finch Express, but I still think my 504/514 naming would be a clearer way to distinguish the two services. The main advantage I see of the 504A/B naming is that it leaves the option for a 504C Dundas West to Broadview, perhaps after 10pm when there is less need for high capacity along the central corridor, Dufferin, or Cherry. With my naming option, that service would create a confusing mess because you'd need to sign the western stops for both 504 and 514 even though the 504 wouldn't go there for most of the day.

 

[dowlingm]

I figured that the main reason they didn’t change 504/Dundas West to 514 is because they don’t have CLRV rollsigns for 514, and TTC is not ruling out CLRVs on that branch (albeit looping via Parliament rather than going to Distillery)

 

[Streety McCarface]

I figured that the main reason they didn’t change 504/Dundas West to 514 is because they don’t have CLRV rollsigns for 514, and TTC is not ruling out CLRVs on that branch (albeit looping via Parliament rather than going to Distillery)

I mean, they don't have "504A Cherry Loop" or "504B Dufferin Gate Loop" rollsigns either.

 

[reaperexpress]

I mean, they don't have "504A Cherry Loop" or "504B Dufferin Gate Loop" rollsigns either.

Yes they do, there are "504 DUFFERIN" and "504 PARLIAMENT".

 

[Streety McCarface]

Yes they do, there are "504 DUFFERIN" and "504 PARLIAMENT".

Was referring to the particular letters, but I guess that's easy enough.

 

[nfitz]

I figured that the main reason they didn’t change 504/Dundas West to 514 is because they don’t have CLRV rollsigns for 514, and TTC is not ruling out CLRVs on that branch (albeit looping via Parliament rather than going to Distillery)

That never stopped them running 514s to Cherry before - they simply put 514 signage in the window.

Besides they aren't planning on running any CLRVs on 504A now. They'll barely need any CLRVs on 504B given recent weekday deployments.

Of all the reasons they've managed to screw up the 504 signage, and now implementing this dreadful service cut on Broadview - the roll signs on CLRVs are not the reason!

 

[DSC]

That never stopped them running 514s to Cherry before - they simply put 514 signage in the window.

Besides they aren't planning on running any CLRVs on 504A now. They'll barely need any CLRVs on 504B given recent weekday deployments.

Of all the reasons they've managed to screw up the 504 signage, and now implementing this dreadful service cut on Broadview - the roll signs on CLRVs are not the reason!

What is dreadful about the service out of Broadview? Do many people boarding streetcar east of Cherry really want to go further west than Dufferin?