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TTC: Sheppard Subway Expansion (Speculative)

TOareaFan said:
That said, I am not a very political person and try to see both sides of any issue...but others often take positions and do what they can to defend them and all I was saying is that there are people who have made taking down the gardiner a lifeswork and they use the cars and barriers argument (mostly)....by supporting a transit barrier they would be risking attack from the equally dogmatic people who support the gardiner at all costs...that is all I was saying.
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The political party that was against the barriers was apart of the miller era. Although I hope we can get back to there sometime currently we are in the FOrd era. Also although I was a miller supporter I was never sold on taking down the gardiner. The excuse was the barrier and how much it costs to keep up in mainternance. Id suggest that the barrier is a non issue and that the maintenance could simply be covered by a toll system.

I think that there are more people who want transit to serve downtown then there are people who care what it would look like. If i had two options elevated service or no service Id take elevated. But then again we just voted against TC which was essentially the same question. ALthough I would say that I dont think people were educated about the financial realities about TC vs Subways. Now we are being educated when we cant figure out how to fund it.
 
GraphicMatt said:
I'm not convinced there are a great many people in Toronto who are actually demanding a Sheppard Subway extension.
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All I'll say to that is that the downtown-centric focus of this forum tends to underestimate the wider appeal of Sheppard.

Whether one is for or against it, the real problem with Sheppard (and Transit City before it) is that the DRL is sinking further into the abyss. Four years lost with Miller's second term is now eight with Ford.

nfitz said:
He'll gain more votes outside of Toronto from telling Ford where to go, than he will by bending over.
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Tough call for McGuinty because he could also lose a good deal of Toronto.

Toronto1 said:
That was W.K. Lis' point, right?
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No one knows.
 
sixrings said:
Im ok with Eglinton being built elevated after Vic park and after Jane to the airport. However if Eglinton goes elevated then it should be contingent on the Sheppard Subway being converted to LRT and then run elevated as well. If elevated becomes the solution it should be implimented in both situations. And it also is rediculous that Eglinton have to cut back its spending to subsidize a SUBWAY system which we all know if under served and will continue to be underserved... Elevated could also be a solution to the Jane LRT situation south of Eglinton where the street is to narrow for in median service.. This too is the situation from Bloor to Eglinton on the don mills side. How about a JANE and Don Mills LRT that goes Elevated at each section from Eglinton south and connect with eachother through the downtown core somewhere. A One way street like richmond or addelaide would be perfect for this. I know its not a perfect DRL but its a far cheaper one...
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Why would she pard have to be converted to be elevated...? There are many elevated metros in the world. It'd just be a waste of money.
 
jje1000 said:
Time to start the expropriation machine!
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Not if they voluntarily sell to the government who in turn gives it to the TTC as part of the overall funding the TTC gets, and the TTC itself could get into the real estate business to only build where extension routes are planned. The TTC can become a PPP in and of itself.
 
M II A II R II K said:
Not if they voluntarily sell to the government who in turn gives it to the TTC as part of the overall funding the TTC gets, and the TTC itself could get into the real estate business to only build where extension routes are planned. The TTC can become a PPP in and of itself.
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Right... voluntarily give land away below the value they could command for it later. That makes sense. Then the TTC gets the land for free... but wait, the government paid for it so that is a shell game. The TTC can become a PPP by itself, but wait the TTC is a public entity, not a private one, and the TTC has a funding source which doesn't charge any interest to borrow money... taxpayers.
 
GenerationW said:
All I'll say to that is that the downtown-centric focus of this forum tends to underestimate the wider appeal of Sheppard.

Whether one is for or against it, the real problem with Sheppard (and Transit City before it) is that the DRL is sinking further into the abyss. Four years lost with Miller's second term is now eight with Ford.

Tough call for McGuinty because he could also lose a good deal of Toronto.

No one knows.
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Wider appeal of what? going from mall to mall?
 
Not to mention that it runs parallel to the busiest highway in North America, Highway 401. The Gardiner and DVP don't even come close to the 401's traffic volumes. The Sheppard line will facilitate suburb to suburb commutes which are the majority today.

We need both the Sheppard line and the downtown relief line, they serve totally different purposes.
 
unimaginative2 said:
Going between the largest two development centres outside downtown along a rapidly-developing corridor that hosts one of the city's busiest bus routes?
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andrewpmk said:
Not to mention that it runs parallel to the busiest highway in North America, Highway 401. The Gardiner and DVP don't even come close to the 401's traffic volumes. The Sheppard line will facilitate suburb to suburb commutes which are the majority today.

We need both the Sheppard line and the downtown relief line, they serve totally different purposes.
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All good points.


But a DRL is still higher prioity to me.
 
andrewpmk said:
The Sheppard line will facilitate suburb to suburb commutes which are the majority today.
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No it won't. It doesn't touch the origin or the destination of most of those trips and subways don't run at speeds and stop spacings to compete with the car. A GO route above ground along the 401 or hydro corridor might compete as it would likely only have a SCC-Don Mills-Yonge stop spacing and reach higher speeds. Subways are a local high-capacity service, not a suburban express. GO competes from Aldershot to Union, a subway from Aldershot to Union would take far too long to get people out of their cars.

People driving between suburbs are driving from residential areas spread across each suburb, to employment spread across each suburb. Whether the subway ends at Don Mills or SCC, there aren't going to be people that get off the 401 to park at the subway to North York to catch a bus to the Bombardier plant for example. Routes downtown work because there are a huge number of destinations (employers, retail, entertainment, etc) existing within walking distance. Most people in Toronto can remember the last time they went downtown. Ask someone in North York the last time they went to SCC and they are likely to have not been there recently. For suburb to suburb transportation something more regional and lower capacity needs to be built by GO along the hydro corridor or 401 with almost no stops going straight from development centre to development centre. With a subway that provides high frequencies and capacity serious development along the entire route and stations spaced closer together are required and that isn't going to serve the population currently driving on the 401, that is a whole new population required to fill the subway.
 
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