TTC: Sheppard Subway Expansion (Speculative)

[Palma]

Actually considering its Scarborough the fiscal Liberals of the City will certainly not be OK

I really don't understand this "well liberal MPPs are for Shepard or Scarborough subways.". Who cares. Why can,t MPP liberals from other ridings do the same thing - champion a subway or LRT for their areas

 

[sixrings]

They are only pro subway because they fear scarborough would vote them out if not. Other areas don't have that same pressure

 

[Cobra]

If Downtown Toronto was more unpredictable politically, the Relief Line would have been built years ago. The Liberals know they have it locked down while the PC know they don't stand a chance. It's easy to see why Downtown transit always took a backseat

 

[OneCity]

If Downtown Toronto was more unpredictable politically, the Relief Line would have been built years ago. The Liberals know they have it locked down while the PC know they don't stand a chance. It's easy to see why Downtown transit always took a backseat

There a few reasons Politically. Their Political representatives have also chosen to fight religiously against other areas of the City projects instead of listening and working together. Not only has this message assisted in the City's Political division chaos, it never addressed the real issue of the massive funding from above. All these years would have been better spent creating a direct message to pressure and lobby the Province and Feds to rally the base. Would have been smarter to take the suburbs along with them to strengthen the message.

I mean even if they were able to save a billion or so from the SSE where is the other $10-$15 coming from? Not Scarborough and not the City. I'm shocked that even today they are fighting for "fact base" and "priority". Stating something obvious and using it only to fight other projects is a waste of everyone's time. In any event the DRL is moving forward, but could have been and Phase 2 still could be expedited I they come up with a better line of attack and use the loud media platform they have to direct the message against those that can actually do something.

 

[nfitz]

Their Political representatives have also chosen to fight religiously against other areas of the City projects ...

That's absurd. The only progress we made was with a left-wing mayor - and all of his new transit was in the suburbs!

 

[OneCity]

That's absurd. The only progress we made was with a left-wing mayor - and all of his new transit was in the suburbs!

No chance, the key word was "His" transit in the suburbs.

This Left wing Mayor refused to listen to the many voices and concerns of large portions of the City, the media assisted by ignoring the concerns of these inner suburban citizens and controlled the message so many residents in the City were not even aware. We have now all paid dearly. I'm not saying he was all bad as In many ways he meant well, but his agenda was way to heavily tilted towards how "downtown" wanted to see other areas get connected to our network and grow.

This is a big part of the reason Left Wing candidates have disappeared in the last few elections and a far leaning Left Wing candidate will likely never come close to sitting in the Mayors chair again until we build bridges and have some unity. Personally I think the City's Left is lucky we have John Tory right now. It could be far worse and when I see them continue to attack him I have to wonder how clueless they are as by no means are they are doing any favours in this climate. They need to simmer down, listen more and work together to build these bridges more then they clearly realize.

In Democracy when you ignore enough people, you open up the door for someone to tap into the neglect and anger. The Left Wing sells them self as the "inclusive" & "caring" party and in many ways they were but in many ways the are not any more. This is Democracy at work and saying all of this I do believe the City's Left Wing will become very powerful again for many reasons over the next couple decades, but not until we have built a greater sense of unity and they can control the vote instead of just the message

 

[nfitz]

No chance, the key word was "His" transit in the suburbs.

You are new here, you seem to be ignorant of the discussions of the past.

Miller was also behind several subway projects. And it's not like they are ever going to build subway on routes like Sheppard East of McCowan, Finch West, Jane, etc.

I'm not saying he was all bad as In many ways he meant well, but his agenda was way to heavily tilted towards how "downtown" wanted to see other areas to grow.

You couldn't be wronger. It was all about high-poverty priority neighbourhoods. Something that Conservatives like Rob Ford and John Tory have shown little interest in.

Again, you are new here. Perhaps you should just listen for a while, instead of pulling these theories out of your imagination.

 

[OneCity]

You are new here, you seem to be ignorant of the discussions of the past.

Miller was also behind several subway projects. And it's not like they are ever going to build subway on routes like Sheppard East of McCowan, Finch West, Jane, etc.

You couldn't be wronger. It was all about high-poverty priority neighbourhoods. Something that Conservatives like Rob Ford and John Tory have shown little interest in.

Again, you are new here. Perhaps you should just listen for a while, instead of pulling these theories out of your imagination.

Miller focused on "Priority Neighbourhoods" - Very good. But cut corners on Connectivity - Not good and a big Political "no-no" as this was never well received in Scarborough.

Ford rebutted on what Miller negeclted and focused on Connectivity in a more intelligent manner - Very good But was not a big booster for the "Priority Neighbourhoods" - Not good

Tory focused on Priority Neighbourhoods and Connectivity - Great, Someone got the message and has listened

Actually the Province got the message on both sides, the Feds are on board and yet you want to discredit this for some reason because you are a long term UT poster? You know nothing about me and using UT experience to discredit opinions is laughable, also the majority of UT is regurgitated extreme Left wing media opinions, and your clearly lack of respect and openness is part of the reason the City has the Politics of today. Not sure there's much that can be done to help closed door UT "experts" like yourself. But as I said feel free to attack my POV with your opinions and facts, leave any personal assumptions out as that's basically tells me you don't have much to rebut anyway.

I pretty confident I know the transit history very well, and if Im missing something please feel free enlightened me. It shouldn't be hard as you've said you've been here awhile.

 

[sixrings]

but I think most UrbanTorontonians don't understand why some people basically say that Miller was all about downtown. Well all of his transit was for the suburbs. So which one was it?

 

[OneCity]

but I think most UrbanTorontonians don't understand why some people basically say that Miller was all about downtown. Well all of his transit was for the suburbs. So which one was it?

He wasn't and as I said he wasn't that bad. The suburbs were getting transit as its overdue like many other things. Unfortunately he tackled from a "Downtowners" POV and when you don't listen to the majority of the residents on the receiving end. Well, we now know. Blanket LRT got us Blanket Subway and thankfully now we have some something in between.

Id even argue Ford gets the false rapport on his actions as he even to compromise.

 

[Cobra]

but I think most UrbanTorontonians don't understand why some people basically say that Miller was all about downtown. Well all of his transit was for the suburbs. So which one was it?

There's a bit of truth on both spectrums.

Both camps were very entrenched in their views... Miller (LRT or nothing...the nothing including the Relief Line) vs Ford (Subways or nothing...LRT are an invention of the devil). During those 2 mayors terms, very little listening was done, even less compromising.

There was rooms for both sides to compromise on some stuff like Eglinton Crosstown merged with SRT (Elevated east of Don Mills instead of at grade). But LRT side was adamant for the at-grade component in Scarborough and keeping the Kennedy transfer while the subway side wanted everything underground.

I actually recalled the SRT being merged into the Crosstown being well received in Scarborough (even with LRT vehicles) before city council killed the MOU...We would have avoided all of this mess... Huge missed opportunity here.

 

[sixrings]

I always agreed with merging the rt and eglinton. But I am also pro Sheppard subway to lrt conversion. I think the reason for no compromise was to nowaste time debating and to build already. Hard imo to argue that when we haven't built anything since he's left and we may end up debating vs building again

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I actually recalled the SRT being merged into the Crosstown being well received in Scarborough (even with LRT vehicles) before city council killed the MOU...We would have avoided all of this mess... Huge missed opportunity here.

They killed the MOU because it killed Finch and Sheppard transit. Finch in particular needed higher order transit.

 

[OneCity]

I always agreed with merging the rt and eglinton. But I am also pro Sheppard subway to lrt conversion. I think the reason for no compromise was to nowaste time debating and to build already. Hard imo to argue that when we haven't built anything since he's left and we may end up debating vs building again

No, council was just playing Politics at the time and beginning to separate from Ford. If they were listening they would have known what Ford ran on was heavily supported and it wasn't going away. They made a calculated error.

 

[nfitz]

Miller focused on "Priority Neighbourhoods" - Very good. But cut corners on Connectivity

Wrong. It all connected. More so than the current plan, given there were more lines. Though hard to really see what difference there is, except a change from a 10 stop LRT to a 1-stop subway extension - which surely is a connectivity fail, given it doesn't cross north of the 401. Other than that, is there anything on the table that wasn't there under Miller? All SmartTrack is, is a handful more stations on the GO RER - most, if not all, had been talked about before.

Ford rebutted on what Miller negeclted and focused on Connectivity in a more intelligent manner

Now that's just silly. Ford's transit plans were just wacko. Nothing on Eglinton. Nothing on Finch. But two subway lines to Scarborough Town Centre? Intelligent? No.

I did like his Willowdale station however, between Bayview and Bessarion.

Not sure there's much that can be done to help closed door UT "experts" like yourself.

Well, you could stop make up absurd mistruths.

And you can stop with this childish Left-wing stuff. The most left-wing councillor in Scarborough supports subway to STC. And we all saw what the last right-wing provincial government did to Toronto subway construction when they came to power.