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TTC: Sheppard Subway Expansion (Speculative)

Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
I wish people would stop saying there aren't funds for this or that. There are.
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Really? You may have noticed that the Drummond report is turning a few heads these days; more heads than transit expansion in Toronto.

Considering that we are on track to ring in a $16 billion deficit - one that could grow to $30.2 billion by 2018 - and that we need to cut provincial spending by 16% just to make sure we don't dig ourselves any deeper, I don't see how we will fund new transit expansion for a generation.

That $8.2 billion is a miraculous one time present with few strings attached. Watching us botch it up on plans that get stupider every time is painful, because I know we will never have an opportunity like this ever again.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
I wish people would stop saying there aren't funds for this or that. There are.
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There is no reason not to trust the Metrolinx's cost estimate for the all-underground Eglinton plan; and they indicated that no more than $650 million will be left for Sheppard. Those $650 million (or even less in case of extra costs for Eglinton) won't do much for Sheppard subway. By extension, if more is directed to Sheppard subway, there won't be enough left for all-underground Eglinton.

Of course, the above applies to the Transit City's $8.2 billion pool. Extra funding can come eventually from the government or from local transit taxes, but that won't happen during the Ford's term. I am not saying that Sheppard subway will never get built if Eglinton goes underground; just that Ford has no resources to pursue both (even if he had the Council support).
 
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That maybe, though I think recent projections put it squarely in LRT territory. It would be my preference to see the funds for it transferred to DRL - but someone got a "promise" to fulfill.

AoD
 
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BurlOak said:
Do we need a review of the Tranist City plan if growth is so much lower? Maybe we do not even need LRT, only BRT or BRT Lite.
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The changes come about because the studies that are being looked at are a quarter-century old. The Transit City EAs were only done recently, and seem relatively consistent with the Metrolinx work that was also done recently.
 
JWBF said:
So where is this money you speak of may I ask.
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He has a printing press in his basement and will print out the funny money as needed.

He and all the supports of this line need to go to City Hall and say "here is my house that you can sell to cover the cost of building the line" as that what will happen if this line get put on the backs of a small group of taxpayer, than the city as a whole.

Time to go back to the polls and asked the public are they willing to pay X$ more yearly in taxes to build X project/service with the full facts and cost layout before they vote on it at the polling stations. It will be 1908 all over again where residents of Toronto voted for 2 subway and the elected anti subway mayor saying no to it. 2 years later, a pro subway mayor was elected, but the public said no to the subway plan. Took 36 years to finally get a subway plan pass.

Its time to force people to vote since its most of the nonvoter doing the bitching these days.
 
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I like Ford's idea of a referendum, but it should include the revenue tools necessary to build the subways he wants (parking taxes, road tolls, etc).

Now that would be a Nixon goes to China scenario. Except I don't think this Nixon has any interest in going to China.
 
Ah referendums. When the people we choose to make decisions for us ask us to make decisions for them.
 
BurlOak said:
Star article about lower growth on Sheppard.

http://www.thestar.com/news/cityhal...eport-mayor-rob-ford-doesn-t-want-you-to-read

Do we need a review of the Tranist City plan if growth is so much lower? Maybe we do not even need LRT, only BRT or BRT Lite.
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Except that buses run on diesel fuel, a product of crude oil. Buses don't have the capacity to be added to whenever there is a increase in passenger load, which light rail does. You'll be stuck if the one vehicle per driver, instead of the one, two, three, four, or even five vehicles if needed in a crisis load.
 
Steve Munro posted a link to the TTC report prepared in March 2011, TTC report

A few interesting details (p.5): the 1986 projected (2011) ridership for

entire Sheppard Line was 15,4K pphpd
Eglinton Subway 17,6K -/-
DRL 11.7K

The 2011 corrected/adjusted numbers are:

Sheppard Line 6K-10k
Eglinton LRT (with underground section) 5.2K
DRL 12K

Looks like Sheppard does not meet the 30K "TTC golden standard", but so are Eglinton and DRL... Should we abandon plans to build DRL considering its marginal advantage over other lines and falling way behind meeting 30K demand?
 
Hipster Duck said:
That $8.2 billion is a miraculous one time present with few strings attached. Watching us botch it up on plans that get stupider every time is painful, because I know we will never have an opportunity like this ever again.
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This just highlights how historically irresponsible Transit City was. The scheme imploded under its own stupidity and bloat until the entire $8+ billion was sunk into one line with essentially zero long-term strategic or regional value, virtually no trip generators or potential for redevelopment, running through lots of the NIMBYest parts of the city, and that isn't ever going to move more people than Sheppard would (a line that has been vilified by downtowners). But Eglinton 'touches every borough' so we have no problems sinking every dollar we can find into this pit. We might as well waste another $2+ billion and send it on its merry way to the airport.

A tunneled line under all of Eglinton gives us a warm fuzzy feeling since it's such a long, straight line right in the middle of our transit maps, but its value is solely aesthetic and symbolic so long as the DRL, Yonge extension, massive GO improvements, Rocket routes on every arterial, fixed downtown streetcar service, etc., etc. all remain undone.
 
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