TTC: Redesigning TTC Signage

[TheTigerMaster]

Do you actually use the TTC? You do realize that you can just "drop your [token] or swipe your card and go" at TTC stations too, right? The fare booth is just for people who need to pay cash, buy tickets/passes, or show a transfer. There are plenty of other turnstiles. Yes, the TTC's fare system is embarrassingly antiquated, but the fare booth is hardly the only way to get into a station!

I am aware of the other methods. I've been a proud Metropass user for more then 6 years. And yes, I am aware what purpose the fare booth serves. But the problem is that a HUGE majority of people use cash and tickets to enter the tickets still. And by huge majority, we're probably talking anywhere from 70% - 90% of customers. The TTC needs to find a way to completely abandon the fare booths and replace them with turnstiles. This could happen within a year and a half, but knowing the TTC we would be lucky if it happened within the next 10 years.

 

[Voltz]

I am aware of the other methods. I've been a proud Metropass user for more then 6 years. And yes, I am aware what purpose the fare booth serves. But the problem is that a HUGE majority of people use cash and tickets to enter the tickets still. And by huge majority, we're probably talking anywhere from 70% - 90% of customers. The TTC needs to find a way to completely abandon the fare booths and replace them with turnstiles. This could happen within a year and a half, but knowing the TTC we would be lucky if it happened within the next 10 years.

Don't most stations already have separate turnstiles for tokens and Metropasses?

 

[@TTCchris]

Hi All,

Some good thoughtful comments in here and since I'm mentioned it gives me the opportunity to respond.

It is very true that the TTC has hundreds of signs that are out of date and out of class. That they form no cohesive approach to wayfinding and often serve to confuse customers, rather than improve their ability to use the TTC quickly and easily, is also pretty indisuptable.

It is also very true that these signs, this - detrius, has built up over decades of operations and that, despite plans to the alternative, there has been no active, approved and funded work to undertake a wholescale upgrade and replacement of these signs.

The cost of such a wholescale replacement would be in the 10's of millions of dollars and, as it stands now, there is no funding available to undertake work on that scale. There are lower cost options we can and will look at (the use of vinyl, removing signs where they are actually detrimental, partial resigning etc.) and we are looking at a variety of options to do that. We need to work out what parts of our wayfinding system (stations totems? direction signs? platform signs? exit signs? etc. etc.) are most important and ensure we give those higher priorities.

Clear and consistent signing is, without a doubt, an important part of the customer experience (I held the standard for signs and customer information at London Underground so have lots of experience in this area). At the minute though there are higher priorities for both service and customer service for our customers. We do need to make some quickish improvements to some stations (Bloor-Yonge is a pretty clear example) but a total package (integrating new signs with existing signs that make up part of our heritage) isn't in the cards for some time.

Chris

p.s. The four totem signs at Osgoode are intentional. Well at least the fourth one was. Putting a new sign (the illuminated "shaped sign") on the fourth corner let us do some good customer research on preferences and which sign gave our customers the right information at the right time.

 

[BurlOak]

The cost of such a wholescale replacement would be in the 10's of millions of dollars and, as it stands now, there is no funding available to undertake work on that scale.

Using TigerMasters cue, I came up with this system map to show all future lines (I included St. Clair and Spadina as LRT since I believe they will be re-branded at some point in time). Each line has different colours (some shades are close, but are geographically separated to avoid confusion. (No debates on the location of the DRL - there is another location for those comments). My graphic abilities are very limited, so I am sure any one else could make major improvements to this.

A few things I noted

1) Many colours in itself almost adds to the complexity - I need sunglasses.

2) With all these lines, I doubt that all the station names would ever fit onto one map. Maybe this overall map should contain only the interchange stations. The individual line maps would need to be looked at to find the remaining stations.

3) If we have an integrated system, then all GO and TTC should be identified on one map. (If they remain as is today, the GO lines should be a much fainter colour). If this is done, it may be better to have the GO lines labelled G1, G2, G3, etc. The LRT lines would be L1, L2, L3, etc. The subways would become S1, S2, S3, S4 - or we could use M for metro instead of S for subway. Heck, that could be a source of revenue - we pit Subway Restaurants against Metro Foods and the highest bidder gets their name.

 

[car4041]

Some good thoughtful comments in here and since I'm mentioned it gives me the opportunity to respond.

Thanks for posting here, Chris! I think LU is pretty much the gold standard for signage and information, so I know you have a good sense of what the ideal would be.

Also glad to hear you mention the heritage of the existing signs. Some of the simpler Bloor-Danforth stations still have the original system with the black enamelled "subway font" signs pretty much intact, and they're actually quite nice and seem to function well -- I think it would be a shame to lose all of these. (Though they would never work at, e.g., Bloor-Yonge.)

Can you tell us if we're going to see more "shaped signs" like the one tested at Osgoode? (I love it!)

 

[Electrify]

Hmm... I stumbled upon this on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TTCchris/statuses/165483921415479296 . Looks like the TTC is trying to redesign their fare booths. But their "solution" looks like it does little to solve the real problem: too much information, too little space, no organization.

And why exactly does the TTC feel the need to place ALL that information on the booths? When you have thousands of people entering a station per hour while the turnstile can only hold one person at the time, why in the world would the TTC think that putting that information there would be a good idea. The last thing we need is for people to be slowing down the line as they to find an obscure piece of information on the booth. The one and only thing that should be on the booth is the price of fare. Thats all that passengers need to know at that moment.

And while I'm ranting about fare booths I might as why take time to say this: WHY IN THE WORLD IS TORONTO STILL USING FARE BOOTS AS THE ONE AND ONLY WAY OF GETTING INTO STATIONS. MOVE INTO THE 21ST CENTURY ALREADY! It is absoutley outrageous that the TTC hasn't moved to a system like this:

With those all you do is drop your coin or swipe your card and go. If someone is in the way, move over to the next one. The problem of waiting in line for two minutes as a mother and her four children discuss fares with the collector are gone.

Now I know what some of you are thinking:

-What if I need coins or tickets? Who will give them to me?

The answer: a macine thats tucked in a corner somewhere. I know that its impressive technology. Welcome to the 21st century.

-What if I need directions?

The answer: There will still be a booth. But it will just be there to answer questions and it won't be collecting fare. There is no reason why other customers should wait in line for 10 and a half minutes as the fare collecter gives you a personal tour of Toronto from his box. And if we're lucky, we may be able to get rid of all the booths and replace them with magical little boxes called computers. From a computer you can get accurate directions to more places then you could ever dream of visiting. Isn't technology amazing?

*rant over*

Hell, why not at least accept debit or credit cards at booths? Or is such a technology too 1980s for the TTC?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Here are the signs with a redesigned compass as requested by some people on the forum. I think that its much better then the previous version but it could still use some work. What do you think?

Turn right to access elevator to centre platform on the A line (YUS)

Turn left to westbound platform on the B line (Bloor-Danforth)

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Don't most stations already have separate turnstiles for tokens and Metropasses?

I think all stations have separate turnstiles. I've never seen a station that combines them both.

 

[Electrify]

Hi All,

Some good thoughtful comments in here and since I'm mentioned it gives me the opportunity to respond.

It is very true that the TTC has hundreds of signs that are out of date and out of class. That they form no cohesive approach to wayfinding and often serve to confuse customers, rather than improve their ability to use the TTC quickly and easily, is also pretty indisuptable.

It is also very true that these signs, this - detrius, has built up over decades of operations and that, despite plans to the alternative, there has been no active, approved and funded work to undertake a wholescale upgrade and replacement of these signs.

The cost of such a wholescale replacement would be in the 10's of millions of dollars and, as it stands now, there is no funding available to undertake work on that scale. There are lower cost options we can and will look at (the use of vinyl, removing signs where they are actually detrimental, partial resigning etc.) and we are looking at a variety of options to do that. We need to work out what parts of our wayfinding system (stations totems? direction signs? platform signs? exit signs? etc. etc.) are most important and ensure we give those higher priorities.

Clear and consistent signing is, without a doubt, an important part of the customer experience (I held the standard for signs and customer information at London Underground so have lots of experience in this area). At the minute though there are higher priorities for both service and customer service for our customers. We do need to make some quickish improvements to some stations (Bloor-Yonge is a pretty clear example) but a total package (integrating new signs with existing signs that make up part of our heritage) isn't in the cards for some time.

Chris

p.s. The four totem signs at Osgoode are intentional. Well at least the fourth one was. Putting a new sign (the illuminated "shaped sign") on the fourth corner let us do some good customer research on preferences and which sign gave our customers the right information at the right time.

You know, if only there was a city politician who had connections to a printing company, and could get the city a preferred rate. Maybe someone which has developed some bad will with transit riders, and performing such a task could help to smooth over hurt feelings. Maybe someone with a controversial transit strategy, and this move would help to get people on side with him. If only...

Side topic, but anyone able to post a link to that thread that guy did which showed a redesigned TTC symbol and signs? It was absolutely brilliant.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

TigerMaster:

Way too busy - good infographics should communicate the message almost immediately, with a minimum of visual distraction - while presenting only essential information

Case 1:
Just spell out elevators to North and South Platforms would do. The important thing is - for what? elevators; what line? Bloor; where to: north and south platforms. In fact, I would drop the last point if it is a joint island platform. That information can be given when you are on that level, where it is used.

Case 2:
Instead of using a compass point and spelling out westbound, identifying the direction and next station at a slightly small font than the actual station name might be sufficient (e.g. West to Spadina).

AoD

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Using TigerMasters cue, I came up with this system map to show all future lines (I included St. Clair and Spadina as LRT since I believe they will be re-branded at some point in time). Each line has different colours (some shades are close, but are geographically separated to avoid confusion. (No debates on the location of the DRL - there is another location for those comments). My graphic abilities are very limited, so I am sure any one else could make major improvements to this.

View attachment 8617

A few things I noted

1) Many colours in itself almost adds to the complexity - I need sunglasses.

2) With all these lines, I doubt that all the station names would ever fit onto one map. Maybe this overall map should contain only the interchange stations. The individual line maps would need to be looked at to find the remaining stations.

I disagree. As you can see from this map I made, fitting more lines onto the map while maintaing simplicity is very easy. Also all the names can fit on the map, but they should ideally be put somewhere else.

A few things about the map:
-Its not to scale
-Its not related to my sign design project. Thats why it doesn't use the same naming system as my signs
-The map is incomplete. That is why there is no Jane LRT. There are also some names floating where the Jane LRT would be.
-If you want to view the full sized image, right click on it, select copy image URL, and paste the link into your browsers address bar.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

TigerMaster:

Way too busy - good infographics should communicate the message almost immediately, with a minimum of visual distraction - while presenting only essential information

Case 1:
Just spell out elevators to North and South Platforms would do.

Thats what I originally did.

Some people on the forum suggested adding the compass. I agree with you 100% when you say it adds complexity. But for the sake of accessibility for the visually impaired the compass may be required.

Instead of using a compass point and spelling out westbound, identifying the direction and next station at a slightly small font than the actual station name might be sufficient

I think that this would add too much complexity. I'm trying to avoid repeating the mistake that the TTC made - cramming too much information into one sign.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

You know, if only there was a city politician who had connections to a printing company, and could get the city a preferred rate. Maybe someone which has developed some bad will with transit riders, and performing such a task could help to smooth over hurt feelings. Maybe someone with a controversial transit strategy, and this move would help to get people on side with him. If only...

Side topic, but anyone able to post a link to that thread that guy did which showed a redesigned TTC symbol and signs? It was absolutely brilliant.

Rob and Doug Ford run a sticker printing company. I think they fit your criteria perfectly.

 

[car4041]

TigerMaster:

Way too busy - good infographics should communicate the message almost immediately, with a minimum of visual distraction. Instead of using a compass point and spelling out westbound, identifying the terminus station in the direction of travel right be sufficient.

I was agreeing up until you suggested using the terminus instead. Toronto is all about the grid. Someone entering a station on the Bloor line generally knows whether they need to head westbound or eastbound. They are much less likely to know whether they need to head "Kipling-bound" or "Kennedy-bound".

(I realize that tourists might not know which way is east or west, but surely they're even less likely to know where Kipling and Kennedy are!)

I know lots of cities use the termini, but I think that's mainly because their lines aren't as ridiculously straight as ours, so the terminus is the only alternative they have. Even then, it makes wayfinding a step more abstract. For example, I don't know Montreal very well, but I know that if I want to get downtown from Jean-Talon, I need to head south. In Toronto, that would be all I need in order to find the correct platform. However, in Montreal, an extra step is required: I have to look at a line diagram and figure out whether "Montmorency" or "Cote-Vertu" is the terminus station that my southbound journey heads toward. This is not a huge hardship, but still, why add this step if we don't need to?

(Not to mention the fact that the U shape of the YUS line would make the termini extremely confusing for wayfinding: if you want to go south from Wilson, you'd need the "Finch" platform, even though Finch is north of Wilson.)

EDIT: I see you retracted that suggestion. Anyway, I'll leave my comments here, because the terminus idea comes up from time to time, and I really think the cardinal directions are the most important piece of info in a Toronto context (although maybe they can be combined with the terminus to make it even clearer -- like they already are on the signs on the wall facing the platform).

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The cost of such a wholescale replacement would be in the 10's of millions of dollars and, as it stands now, there is no funding available to undertake work on that scale.

Has the TTC considered selling the names of stations to raise money to improve customer service. I think that selling names of the stations so they become something like "Dundas-Eaton Centre" and "St. George - University of Toronto" would be a great idea.