TTC: Other Items (catch all)

[Steve X]

From the CEO's Report on the agenda of the next meeting of the TTC, linked below:

https://cdn.ttc.ca/-/media/Project/TTC/DevProto/Documents/Home/Public-Meetings/Board/2024/February-22/1_CEO_Report_February_2024_1.pdf?rev=b9f7659e494e42e29024ae0b80765d5d&hash=DF59B0AB3F0A6F795095B6556102D212

We get this service tidbit:

View attachment 540935

What is missing is the 3x as long paragraph saying service reduce on my routes, especially rush hour to ensure riders are more packed together or left on the road waiting for a chance to get on the next bus longer on the following routes: 15 Evans, 17 Birchmount, 29 Dufferin, 929 Dufferin Express, 33 Forest Hill, 34 Eglinton East, 38 Highland Creek, 938 Highland Creak Express, 939 Finch East Express, 42 Cummer, 45 Kipling, 46 Martin Grove, 51 Leslie, 53 Steeles East, 59 Maple Leaf, 68 Warden, 968 Warden Express, 989 Weston Express, 90 Vaughan, 91 Woodbine, 106 Sentinel, 109 Ranee, 110 Islington South, 111 East Mall, 124 Sunnybrook, 126 Christie, 127 Davenport, 130 Middlefield, 132 Milner, 161 Rogers Road and 900 Airport Express.

Some routes appear on both list as there are improvements made in certain times while reductions being made in other times. Clearly someone has realize they don't have money as this list is quite extensive.

 

[JSF-1]

The same unreality that thinks buses aren't crush loaded and that we can do more with less.

Does anyone here know when the TDSB stopped using school buses for field trips?

If I recall we took the TTC on field trips in 1995 however I distinctly recall taking a TDSB School bus to Charles Gordon Sr PS in 2000 from Edgewood PS.

I was using school buses for field trips all the way up until the last one I went on in 2010 (Grade 10 field trip to the Science Centre). I never had to take a TTC bus for a field trip and the only time we didn't use a school bus was for trips outside of Toronto; for those they would charter a coach bus (Camp Kearny in Grade 6, and Ottawa in Grade 8).

 

[Undead]

If I remember correctly, we took the TTC (non charter) to the Science Centre and a school bus to the Toyota plant.

 

[Jane2021]

Hopefully in the service change this Sunday they will add articulated buses to the 935 and 35

 

[Northern Light]

What is missing is the 3x as long paragraph saying service reduce on my routes, especially rush hour to ensure riders are more packed together or left on the road waiting for a chance to get on the next bus longer on the following routes: 15 Evans, 17 Birchmount, 29 Dufferin, 929 Dufferin Express, 33 Forest Hill, 34 Eglinton East, 38 Highland Creek, 938 Highland Creak Express, 939 Finch East Express, 42 Cummer, 45 Kipling, 46 Martin Grove, 51 Leslie, 53 Steeles East, 59 Maple Leaf, 68 Warden, 968 Warden Express, 989 Weston Express, 90 Vaughan, 91 Woodbine, 106 Sentinel, 109 Ranee, 110 Islington South, 111 East Mall, 124 Sunnybrook, 126 Christie, 127 Davenport, 130 Middlefield, 132 Milner, 161 Rogers Road and 900 Airport Express.

Some routes appear on both list as there are improvements made in certain times while reductions being made in other times. Clearly someone has realize they don't have money as this list is quite extensive.

There are some net improvements coming in March, but the bulk of this year's service improvements are currently planned for September as I understand it.

Its not enough, its not soon enough, a shortage of money is only a partial excuse, though a real one; the reality is the TTC is burning money on a lot of not needed or useful fare inspectors and special constables and those resources would be better deployed to service, in my opinion.

 

[T3G]

I only took the TTC on one field trip, our class went to visit another school about 10 minutes away by bus. It was out in deep Scarborough and the bus was pretty empty (I still remember it was a 1996 Orion V, the peak of North American bus design!) All other trips were done by school bus.

The thought of a school taking the TTC on a route with any kind of crowding issue sounds absolutely insane to me. It sounds nightmarish as the teacher trying to keep the group together, and it sounds nightmarish as a passenger stuck on one of these buses without standee areas, probably already rammed to the gills, trying to find any place at all to exist where someone isn't going to bodyslam you with a backpack. But I guess this is what happens when you give peanuts to the education system, and the transit system, and order buses designed for tiny suburban systems where no one could reasonably be found standing. Short sighted stupidity is like a religion in these parts.

 

[littlewill1166]

Does anyone here know when the TDSB stopped using school buses for field trips?

The TDSB still uses school buses. Part of the budget comes from the board, additional money can be raised by parent councils. Schools in better off areas are more able to raise money to take more trips via school bus. For high school students, they're mostly used for long distance trips outside Toronto without good public transportation (McMichael Gallery, Mansfield Outdoor Camp, Camp Robinhood, etc).

I don't know how this wasn't brought up, but the TDSB already provides student TTC tickets for students who ask for them. The report says that school boards purchased 1.7 million student tickets. They're supposed to be prioritized for students who live far away or were in financial need. My school had a lot of extra tickets, so the guidance department would hand them out quite freely. I got a bunch of free tickets for field trips and sports.

Some students would trade their tickets for food, cash, etc at the convenience store across the street...

Nonetheless, I don't see what's wrong with the current system where school boards are in charge of purchasing and distributing TTC tickets for student transportation. The only thing this does is shift some of the costs of student transportation away from the school boards and onto the TTC. Students on field trips crowding vehicles already happens (kids 12 and under already ride for free).

 

[Northern Light]

The TDSB still uses school buses. Part of the budget comes from the board, additional money can be raised by parent councils. Schools in better off areas are more able to raise money to take more trips via school bus. For high school students, they're mostly used for long distance trips outside Toronto without good public transportation (McMichael Gallery, Mansfield Outdoor Camp, Camp Robinhood, etc).

I don't know how this wasn't brought up, but the TDSB already provides student TTC tickets for students who ask for them. The report says that school boards purchased 1.7 million student tickets. They're supposed to be prioritized for students who live far away or were in financial need. My school had a lot of extra tickets, so the guidance department would hand them out quite freely. I got a bunch of free tickets for field trips and sports.

Some students would trade their tickets for food, cash, etc at the convenience store across the street...

Nonetheless, I don't see what's wrong with the current system where school boards are in charge of purchasing and distributing TTC tickets for student transportation. The only thing this does is shift some of the costs of student transportation away from the school boards and onto the TTC. Students on field trips crowding vehicles already happens (kids 12 and under already ride for free).

Can you still obtain student tickets? I know Presto has a system for dispensing these at their machines; but I had been under the impression that old-school tickets from the TTC were a thing of the past.

 

[littlewill1166]

Can you still obtain student tickets? I know Presto has a system for dispensing these at their machines; but I had been under the impression that old-school tickets from the TTC were a thing of the past.

This is from the report:

"To establish a baseline of existing rides, staff have used annual PRESTO bulk sales of youth PRESTO tickets to Toronto school boards as an approximation. There are 1.7 million youth PRESTO tickets sold per annum. Of this, approximately 1.5 million youth PRESTO tickets are given to students for home-to-school travel. It is assumed that the remaining 0.2 million youth PRESTO tickets are used for field trips."

 

[Northern Light]

This is from the report:

"To establish a baseline of existing rides, staff have used annual PRESTO bulk sales of youth PRESTO tickets to Toronto school boards as an approximation. There are 1.7 million youth PRESTO tickets sold per annum. Of this, approximately 1.5 million youth PRESTO tickets are given to students for home-to-school travel. It is assumed that the remaining 0.2 million youth PRESTO tickets are used for field trips."

That's interesting...........

But ya know, that doesn't cover very many kids; by my math, 1,500,000 fares, divided by 195 school days, divided by 2 trips per school day, works out to fewer than 3,900 students in the entire city.

200,000 for field trips, would be 100,000 person events (round trip equals 2 fares); if the class size is 30 that's 3,333 field trips. There are something like 110 TDSB High Schools, plus you have to add middle schools in, in some measure (I'm guessing at 40, as I can't find the stat.)......that's 22 class field trips per school. Almost certainly less than 1 per class per year.

 

[littlewill1166]

That's interesting...........

But ya know, that doesn't cover very many kids; by my math, 1,500,000 fares, divided by 195 school days, divided by 2 trips per school day, works out to fewer than 3,900 students in the entire city.

200,000 for field trips, would be 100,000 person events (round trip equals 2 fares); if the class size is 30 that's 3,333 field trips. There are something like 110 TDSB High Schools, plus you have to add middle schools in, in some measure (I'm guessing at 40, as I can't find the stat.)......that's 22 class field trips per school. Almost certainly less than 1 per class per year.

I wonder if part of the low numbers has to do with COVID and students not knowing they can ask for tickets. If students don't ask for them, then the school boards aren't going to go out and buy them.

Most of the field trips I did in high school were outside of Toronto where the school rented either a school or coach bus. The 1 per class a year is quite reasonable. Most of the trips inside Toronto on the TTC were for sports.

 

[drum118]

I have seen school trips taking place on the subway system several times for various age groups. The noticeably young ones hold onto a short rope in small groups with an adult with them to groups of older age. Even on buses and streetcars.

Not sure where I should place it and maybe interesting for some to see it. It is free or you can pay some money for it

He has worked for several systems in the GTA along with workshops. I have been to a few of them and have read his site from time to time with mixed reviews.

Event RSVP​

Jarrett Walker on “Human Transit”​

WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 21, 2024

12:00PM EASTERN

 

[smallspy]

I wonder if part of the low numbers has to do with COVID and students not knowing they can ask for tickets. If students don't ask for them, then the school boards aren't going to go out and buy them.

Perhaps things have changed by now, but when I was in high school I went to an out-of-zone school in a particular program which was the only one in the area that offered that program. So long as we were enrolled in the program, we were given tickets - we didn't have to ask for them.

Dan

 

[PL1]

I asked my sister, a guidance counselor at a TDSB high school about TTC tickets from TDSB:

"Yes. For field trips it’s up to the principal as I believe it comes from their budget. In terms of daily commute, the distance for approval depends on how far they are from the school and if they're elementary or secondary students. If the student is at the school through an out of area application, they do not get TTC tickets as it is their choice to attend but if they’re there for a special program through special education and they meet the criteria for distance, they would get TTC tickets."

She goes on to say that parents/students have to apply through the office to see if they qualify for tickets

 

[dowlingm]

Not sure where I should place it and maybe interesting for some to see it. It is free or you can pay some money for it

He has worked for several systems in the GTA along with workshops. I have been to a few of them and have read his site from time to time with mixed reviews.

Event RSVP​

Jarrett Walker on “Human Transit”​

WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 21, 2024

12:00PM EASTERN

Walker has been working on some projects in Ireland like Dublin and Cork Busconnects, which got quite strong pushback but that’s because the historical fare structures and service reliability in Ireland largely discouraged route/mode transfers so people instinctively distrust the idea, whereas transfers are understood and expected (if not exactly welcomed) here. It also seems common that when these plans get rolled out, the local governments throw in changes to road networks or bus franchising (Wellington NZ in the latter case) which makes it difficult to parse out anger about the network change with anger about the other stuff.