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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

Given that TC vehicles could be quite a bit different from the legacy LRVs, I always wondered why the TTC decided to have side platforms (as opposed to a more efficient central island platform) on TC lines, or why TC platforms are at curb height rather than high enough to allow high floor vehicles.

There'll be a mix of side and island platforms for TC, and the LRVs will have doors on both sides. For surface stops around intersections, two staggered side platforms use up less ROW width than a single extra-wide island would, so they're preferable in those contexts. I believe the quasi-subway stations along Eglinton will be island platforms, though.

High floor appears to have gone out of fashion with most of the LRV manufacturers and pretty much everyone seems to be heading to offering mainly just a 70% and an 100% low floor tram model. While Eglinton could be pretty happily built as high floor and work fine, for the likes of Finch and Sheppard not needing to build elevated platforms adds up to significant savings in terms of cost and accessibility.
 
Given that TC vehicles could be quite a bit different from the legacy LRVs, I always wondered why the TTC decided to have side platforms (as opposed to a more efficient central island platform) on TC lines, or why TC platforms are at curb height rather than high enough to allow high floor vehicles.

Transit City will be using both sides of the car, while the new streetcars will be one side only. The Eglinton tunnels will be sized for heavy rail vehicles. The stations are low-floor, center-platforms, at least in the initial presentation. That may change with the detail designs. See this link for more information on the Eglinton LRT.
 
"I'd be curious what the marginal cost increase is for moving from a 28m vehicle up to a 45m vehicle." I don't know how much it cost, but Dublin upgraded all of their Citadis 301 series to 40m from 30m by buying additional modules.
 
Does anyone have any info on when the first ones are meant to be in service? and on what routes? TTC staff seem to be tight lipped about this.
 
There'll be a mix of side and island platforms for TC, and the LRVs will have doors on both sides. For surface stops around intersections, two staggered side platforms use up less ROW width than a single extra-wide island would, so they're preferable in those contexts. I believe the quasi-subway stations along Eglinton will be island platforms, though.

High floor appears to have gone out of fashion with most of the LRV manufacturers and pretty much everyone seems to be heading to offering mainly just a 70% and an 100% low floor tram model. While Eglinton could be pretty happily built as high floor and work fine, for the likes of Finch and Sheppard not needing to build elevated platforms adds up to significant savings in terms of cost and accessibility.

I do not think High Floor has gone out of fashion with manufacturers. Bombardier still offers High Flooor vehicles, and I know Siemens is finishing up an order for Edomonton. I would say bulding high floor systems have largely gone out of fashion with cities. Building simple low level platforms in the middle of a street would cost less than a high level platform.
 
Does anyone have any info on when the first ones are meant to be in service? and on what routes? TTC staff seem to be tight lipped about this.

It might be a while as presently none of our streetcar carhouses can handle any maintenance on these cars. Just like in subways we have people ordering our fleets and in the end they find out and are shocked that we cant service them.
 
There is a public information session on April 8 to discuss "the new streetcars and the route they will travel from the Queen Street tracks to the Connaught and Ashbridges yard".

The announcement notes that the new facility and tracks must be complete by 2013 in time for the delivery of the first 36 streetcars.

I think those won't acutally be the first deliveries. There were plans to start with 6 prototypes in 2012 and make sure they work properly all over the system first . They were going to be stored at existing facilities until the new one is ready.
 
Yes, I also thought that the first few new streetcars were coming in 2011 or 2012 and I hope that's so as it surely makes sense to fix any problems before we have 204 of them!
 
the ttc will be doing work at russell for the first streetcars as we will be getting them before the new carhouse is ready.three tracks next to the carhouse will be used. there are also pictures of the new streetcar cabs on display at russell
 
From Inside Toronto:

http://www.insidetoronto.com/news/local/article/659081--lrv-maintenance-site-causing-concern

LRV maintenance site causing concern
Councillor Fletcher thinks TTC not taking community into account
A local councillor said she's getting "pretty cranky" about what she feels is the Toronto Transit Commission's (TTC) lack of communication and inflexibility when it comes to a proposed streetcar storage and maintenance facility in her ward.

Toronto-Danforth's Paula Fletcher is referring to the yet-to-be-built $345-million Ashbridges Bay light rail vehicle (LRV) facility at the southeast corner of Lake Shore Boulevard East and Leslie Street.

"I'm not sure (the TTC) is taking our community's goals and aspirations into account," said the Ward 30 representative.

"I want to have real conversations about minimizing the impacts."

In a letter to the Toronto Transit Commission's General Manager Gary Webster and its Chair Adam Giambrone, Fletcher clearly outlined her various concerns, which include "extreme" noise and the lowering of property values around the facility and the connecting route to Queen Street East.

Fletcher said during a phone interview she feels the TTC hasn't fully considered the implications of its plan to route streetcars on Leslie Street from Queen Street East to the new facility and back.

"I want them to look at something that does not run up such a busy street. The TTC has seriously underestimated the number of residents and the level of traffic on Leslie Street with the businesses," she said.

Alternatively, the councillor said she'd like the streetcar route to the facility to cut through 'employment areas' east of Leslie Street near the TTC's Connaught Yard.

"I don't know why that route wasn't seriously considered."

Fletcher also expressed her unease with the physical impacts of the facility on esthetics of the Leslie-Lake Shore Boulevard area.

"I'm quite concerned as well that the design they have and the number of cars they have on that site will seriously compromise Leslie Street as a gateway to the waterfront," she said, adding the TTC has removed any plans to 'green' that area.

Noting that residents both young and old would benefit from the city's 204 new low-floor streetcars, Fletcher underlined the community must be consulted before any decisions are made pertaining to the local LRV facility and streetcar route to reach it.

"While we are in love with improved transit, we would really like a good healthy respect from the TTC. This is a very knowledgeable, active and educated community," she said.

Earlier this month, nearly 200 Leslieville residents packed a local church hall to talk about their concerns pertaining to the proposed TTC facility and to discuss the formation of the new Leslieville Residents Association (LRA).

Like their local councillor, Leslieville residents support the strengthening of public transit.

"This is not about not-in-my-backyard, it's about look-in-my-backyard. I think everybody (in Leslieville) is pro-TTC. We are all transit users," said longtime area resident Nancy Hawley, the LRA's interim chair.

"We need to have a proper policy dialogue and public dialogue on this."

A public consultation on the proposed route for streetcars travelling from Queen Street East to the yet-to-be-built Ashbridges Bay light rail vehicle (LRV) maintenance and storage facility is set to take place on Thursday, April 8 from 6:30 to 9 p.m. at the EMS Academy, 895 Eastern Ave. All are welcome to attend.

Call Lito Romano at 416-397-8699, email lito.romano@ttc.ca, or visit www.toronto.ca/involved/projects/lrv/ for more information about the project.

The TTC did not return The Mirror's request for comment.


Looking at Bing Maps, the area is surrounded by industrial, and commercial land. How will the carhouse lower property values, especially when Leslieville already has a carhouse in their community?
 
Beyond me what the concern is. Essentially we are talking about impacts on Leslie between Queen and Eastern. Hard to believe anyone is going to complain about that. I can only conclude that people who drive down Leslie are concerned about traffic.

Now the TTC has drawn up a long list of alternate routings ... and they all look really bizarre; perhaps that the point. See:
http://www.toronto.ca/involved/projects/lrv/pdf/2010-03-30_proposed_track_connections_eng.pdf
 
Looking at the route they've chosen it seems the most direct, which I think is a good thing, no?
 
Now the TTC has drawn up a long list of alternate routings ... and they all look really bizarre; perhaps that the point.

The Leslie routing makes the most sense but I would expect both the Commissioners-Cherry and Lakeshore-Coxwell routes to be built in the future to connect to the Lakeshore East and Cherry LRTs and the Kingston Road LRT.
 
There's a really awkward traffic light on Leslie between Eastern & Lakeshore to facilitate turns into either the Loblaws or the Price Chopper which would probably get even more backed up with streetcars running through here.

But that doesn't really mean it's not a good route.
 

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