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TTC: Electric and alternative fuel buses

This is similar to Bombardier's Primove technology, which allows LRVs to collect power wirelessly, rather than using overhead or third rail power collection.

I'm skeptical of this unproven technology. The capital investments to get this to work must be huge. We'd be better off using wireless charging stations at subway stations, where the battery can recharge a bit before heading off.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
This is similar to Bombardier's Primove technology, which allows LRVs to collect power wirelessly, rather than using overhead or third rail power collection.

I'm skeptical of this unproven technology. The capital investments to get this to work must be huge. We'd be better off using wireless charging stations at subway stations, where the battery can recharge a bit before heading off.
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It's called inductive coupling. It's how transformers and motors work, it's not exactly new or unproven. It's how 'wireless' charging stations work as well.
 
doug said:
It's called inductive coupling. It's how transformers and motors work, it's not exactly new or unproven. It's how 'wireless' charging stations work as well.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't their implementation in transit solutions a recent thing? That's what I had in mind when I said it was unproven.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
How would an existing trolly fleet make going electric easier?
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The existing support poles could have been reused. The electrical substations, now gone, could have been kept on. The overhead wires at turns could have been removed, especially with new types of duo-buses, and simplified. And the experienced electricians and mechanics could pass on their knowledge onto the new employees coming in.
 
Winnipeg is rolling out battery buses with Eaton (i.e. a power manufacturer not vehicle manufacturer tied technology like PRIMOVE or APS) chargers at stops. Might be worth keeping an eye on. Given the experience with the Toronto hybrid batteries it will be interesting to see real world cold climate performance.

Given the capital costs of either full electrification or solutions like Winnipeg's, I'd like to see investment in electric vehicles concentrated on routes where service is anticipated 24 x 7, to soak up overnight hydro capacity (even if TTC are not paying by time of use at present)
 
W. K. Lis said:
The electrical substations, now gone, could have been kept on.
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Actually almost all of the substations were shared with streetcars and the subway. I think only the ones on Weston Rd and Annette at Runnymede were dedicated to the trolley coach system. So they're mostly still in place and still in use, such as the one on Lansdowne south of Bloor, Shaw & Queen, Bedford north of Bloor, Jane Station, St. Clair & Old Weston Rd and Yonge & Lawrence to name a few.
 
If we didn't get rid of the trolley buses, we could have these ones rolling along the streets of Toronto.

Seattle:
Shots of 4500, Metro’s first low-floor articulated electric trolleybus (New Flyer XT60), in action. You can see it rolling up Rainier, up Pike, then lowering the poles and using battery power, and pulling a U-turn at the Route 14 terminus in Mount Baker. I’m glad we decided to invest in more and better trolleybuses.
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W. K. Lis said:
If we didn't get rid of the trolley buses, we could have these ones rolling along the streets of Toronto.
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The TTC has a poor history with alternative technologies, and every single thing they have tried has been deemed a failure (partly due to their inability to use things the way they are supposed to be used). Trolleys, CNG, Hybrids, Bio-Fuel, even Articulated Diesel buses. Whatever you name, the TTC won't be able to do it right.
 
TTC got rid of the trolley buses at the time because with wrong one turn of the steering wheel and the bus would lose the overhead connection, they should be as a dead technology like the ICTS is.

Which leads me to the Bombardier's Primove technology, the idea look great, but the connection is so close to the ground that I have a feeling that any snow won't make an connection, and somehow it can recharge while waiting for people with its "special rechargeable battery" makes me wonder what the life cycle of the battery is, and what the replacement cost will be? That said, I don't think it's not something we should write off, but let some other city be Bombardier test case and see how it works out for them over an ten year period.
 
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Vancouver has the largest trolley fleet in NA and has many of the new low-floor articulated trolleys. They are great but not worth the bother of getting a new system especially when you already have far more comfortable streetcars.

The reason Seat/Van still have trolleys is because of the high inclines of many of the streets where streetcars are not viable and diesel buses are painfully slow and loud getting up the hills from a standstill which also drinks the fuel.
 
The new trolleybuses can run on batteries, flywheels, or Primove. The old trolleybuses needed a garage (Lansdowne & Eglinton) to be right beside a trolleybus line. The new trolleybuses don't, so existing or new garages don't have to be. Just need an electrical supply to recharge them.

Berlin (and other cities in Germany) will be installing Primove in 2015. See link. I'm sure it does snow in Berlin, so we'll see how it behaves in winter. What I find interesting is the following:

The German Federal Ministry of Transport and Digital Infrastructure (BMVI) is supporting the project in the context of the "International Showcase Programme for E-mobility Berlin Brandenburg".
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To the federal political parties here in Canada, make a note of this support from the federal level.
 
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