TTC CLRV Streetcars: Where will they go once they are retired?

[Hipster Duck]

Personally I'd hope we'd keep a small but significant fleet of cars. I think the scrapping of all but two of the PCCs was extremely shortsighted on the part of the TTC and province (if I remember right, there were 15-20 being refurbished in the 90s but budget cuts led to the TTC scrapping the majority). God knows it feels like Toronto is afraid of the past and is always looking to completely eradicate any proof that there was something here before whatever our current infatuation is.

To be fair, I have never heard of a city that kept a large proportion of its obsolete transit vehicles after its replacements were up and running. There just isn't the space or the money to keep these in storage.

My guess is that the Halton County Museum gets a CLRV or an ALRV, the TTC keeps one for special events, another gets retrofitted into a rail grinder/work car, and a handful (maybe like 10) get sold off privately to become diners or art pieces or whatever. But apart from that, I don't think there will be any takers.

The first reason is what JayBeeGooner said: the CLRVs are maintenance nightmares, and you can get the same level of user-friendliness with a lot less hassle and some heritage cred if you get a PCC. The other benefit of a PCC is that they're not exclusive to Toronto, so they have a throwback appeal in other places. Another reason is that I think private heritage trolley lines have peaked, since quite a few cities in North America are now building modern streetcar lines, and the novelty of riding a streetcar will wear off. In fact, some heritage systems have been scrapped in cities that are now building modern streetcar systems, such as Tucson and Seattle.

 

[drum118]

Talked to Brad tonight before another meeting I was at in place of the town hall meeting and he said they are looking at it, but no decision as what is going to take place yet.

Lack of space come 2021 will have a bearing on what and how many are keep. He was talking one of each based on best one with spare part.

As for system keeping streetcar equipment, how many system have them today and didn't rid of them before the 60's?

Other than TTC, only 3 systems have PCC's operating today.

How many systems have 30 year old streetcars in the first place?

 

[ssiguy2]

Acessibility? Most places have those AODA like rules now.

That is exactly what I was thinking.

No NA government will financially support any streetcar /LRT line unless it is fully accessible and nor should they. I think they should keep maybe 10 and send a couple to museums. It would also be kinda neat if they made some into restaurants.

 

[innsertnamehere]

A single ALRV and a single CLRV would be just fine for me, though I would like to hope that they would keep the two in service. It would be a neat "treat" to see an ALRV or CLRV trundle down the street well into the 2030's. Speaking of that, are the Peter Witts 100 years old yet?

 

[smallspy]

Lack of space come 2021 will have a bearing on what and how many are keep. He was talking one of each based on best one with spare part.

I don't know why you keep thinking that there will be a lack of space. The TTC has quite a bit of space that they could store them at Hillcrest, and once the new cars come in, even more will become available.

Of course, it won't matter if they decide to get rid of all of their historical streetcars. Which seems to be the way staff is leaning.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[drum118]

I don't know why you keep thinking that there will be a lack of space. The TTC has quite a bit of space that they could store them at Hillcrest, and once the new cars come in, even more will become available.

Of course, it won't matter if they decide to get rid of all of their historical streetcars. Which seems to be the way staff is leaning.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

I am not the one saying there a lack of space when it comes from Brad and Andy in the first place. Both have being saying for sometime that TTC will be lacking space even with Hillcrest being used.

With my quick talk to both of them before I head off to another meeting at City Hall, it was stated that Hillcrest will have issues and still looking at using CNE to store equipment. They will have to look for another yard after 2021 when the fleet is expanded again.

Keeping a historical fleet has never been high on TTC radar and prefer not to have one. This includes the 2 buses they plan to keep at this time.

 

[ShonTron]

A single ALRV and a single CLRV would be just fine for me, though I would like to hope that they would keep the two in service. It would be a neat "treat" to see an ALRV or CLRV trundle down the street well into the 2030's. Speaking of that, are the Peter Witts 100 years old yet?

The Peter Witts were purchased between 1921 and 1923 - so about 90 years old.

 

[wopchop]

I'd like to see them in a Toronto Transit Museum, of some kind.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Sell some to transit geeks who would put one in their back yard or something.

 

[DavidJamesTO]

Acessibility? Most places have those AODA like rules now.

Someone in Windsor (can't remember if it was the mayor or a councillor) suggested the city buy the fleet to operate a waterfront streetcar line. This was my first thought. They could only be used if the stairwells were filled in and raised platforms were used at every station, and even then they would probably be too narrow.

 

[nrb]

To be fair, I have never heard of a city that kept a large proportion of its obsolete transit vehicles after its replacements were up and running. There just isn't the space or the money to keep these in storage.

Over half of Prague's tram fleet is 50 year old T3s running alongside brand spanking new trams.

 

[Johnny Au]

The CLRVs can also be used for film shoots as well.

 

[drum118]

Wonder if TTC has put out feelers around the world to see if anyone maybe interest in obtaining part of the fleet over time?

The timeline for shipping these cars are delay by 9 months already to the point that the 42 ARLV schedule to be retire in 2014 maybe push into 2015 now.

The new cars were to be here by spring to go into service on 510, but no approval yet to build them since 4400 has yet to return with all the modifications that needed to be done from all testing was done, considering it was to be back in Sept. 4401 & 4402 will have to be done also and all 3 must go under new testing to verify the modifications for production. That will not happen until early 2014 at this rate.

 

[W. K. Lis]

When the last of the new streetcars arrive by 2021, that could be the last time the CLRVs will be in revenue service. However, AODA rules do allow them to continue until 2024. That's eleven years from now. They could be set aside for emergency use until then.

 

[nfitz]

However, AODA rules do allow them to continue until 2024. That's eleven years from now. They could be set aside for emergency use until then.

I'd think on a very frequent peak-hours route, that AODA rules would be fulfilled by having 50% of the vehicles accessible.

Though I fully expect the CLRVs to be fully retired before 2024 ... and the ALRVs even earlier.