News   Nov 27, 2024
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TTC Cartography, Signage, and Wayfinding

I'm sorry if someone mentioned this before, but will the signage in the subway system need to be bilingual once the Ontario government takes over in accordance with the French Language Service Act? Even just leaving it as is might be a little confusing and inconsistent as Metrolinx's renderings of the Crosstown & Finch West projects proudly display bilingual signage throughout.

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/programs/flhs/flsa.aspx
 
I'm sorry if someone mentioned this before, but will the signage in the subway system need to be bilingual once the Ontario government takes over in accordance with the French Language Service Act? Even just leaving it as is might be a little confusing and inconsistent as Metrolinx's renderings of the Crosstown & Finch West projects proudly display bilingual signage throughout.

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/programs/flhs/flsa.aspx
Interesting point. No doubt Doug thinks all this French stuff is a waste of time and tax-payer $$! (His actions last year re Francophone Commissioner and Francophone university being examples.)
 
I'd assume the trigger is the province running (or contracting to run) the operation, not owning the infrastructure.

With TTC remaining the operator, I'd think nothing changes. Though how the TTC avoids the requirement I don't know ...

The operative words there are "I don't know"! :)
 
I'd assume the trigger is the province running (or contracting to run) the operation, not owning the infrastructure.

With TTC remaining the operator, I'd think nothing changes. Though how the TTC avoids the requirement I don't know ...

The operative words there are "I don't know"! :)

The TTC is going to operate the Eglinton Crosstown and Finch West LRT, but those are receiving bilingual signage. I guess since the TTC operates it, they will still be classified as a municipal service? But, the province has been very upfront of advertising the subway system as a benefit to the region as a whole. I don't know how far the province would go to reword the bill just to avoid replacing signage as I doubt the politicians proposing the bill ever used the subway outside of campaign periods. If anything, I do hope they do adopt Metrolinx's new wayfinding standards just to avoid inconsistencies between new and old lines and also it seems slightly more superior than the TTC's signage.
 
I'd assume the trigger is the province running (or contracting to run) the operation, not owning the infrastructure.

With TTC remaining the operator, I'd think nothing changes. Though how the TTC avoids the requirement I don't know ...

The operative words there are "I don't know"! :)
Same in Montreal where EXO is bilingual and the STM is french-only and they interpret the same law in different ways.
 
186246
new maps on Line 2 shows only Line 2 (and subway/streetcar connections)
 
I like the strip maps, but I am not a fan of two of the TTC's recent mapping/wayfinding changes: highlighting only streetcar routes, and adopting the same symbology for all express bus routes.

There are many bus routes that run more frequently, quickly, and reliably than most streetcars. Why just highlight one mode, just because it runs on rails? The 502/503 routes especially aren't worth highlighting. I wonder if they will ever see streetcars again, actually.

As for the express buses, there's a huge difference between the 900 Airport Express (frequent service 20 hours a day) and the premium rush-hour routes that might only have 4 round trips total. And in between are other rush-hour only routes, and routes that are frequent and run at all times except late evenings (like the busy 939A Finch). All have the same symbology now.
 
There are many bus routes that run more frequently, quickly, and reliably than most streetcars. Why just highlight one mode, just because it runs on rails? The 502/503 routes especially aren't worth highlighting. I wonder if they will ever see streetcars again, actually.
Not sure that's a fair comparison, while some express routes may be more frequent, they certainly lack in capacity, and speed/reliability is a product of the general geography/layout of the road it uses. The streetcars tend to not have this advantage, they are stuck running on surface downtown streets with very little room to improve capacity. I presume the streetcars are listed because they have the large ridership (in general) that most bus routes (especially express routes) do not have. The streetcars also cater more so to tourists, which is probably why they're listed.

I'd be really sad if I never get to see another streetcar on Kingston Road, it's such a fun route and didn't they just rebuild it?
 
View attachment 186246 new maps on Line 2 shows only Line 2 (and subway/streetcar connections)

This is definitely an improvement over the current map. The current map still works well as is, but with Eglinton coming, it might end getting pretty clustered. For line 1, it could give them the chance to finally distinguish the University and Yonge segments given they refer to it during subway closures, but no hint of their existence is shown on the map.

The real question is what will happen on the Rockets, I am sure its possible to rip out the current LED maps and replace with an LED strip map but, I'm not sure whether the TTC would do it. Seems stupid not to have the TTC's primary line not have the latest wayfinding though.

They probably haven't gone around to changing the TR's light system, since I would figure replacing paper is much easier than replacing the lighting system. I wouldn't think ridership would have anything to do with this since this does nothing to increase capacity or that's sort.
 
I'm a big fan of the strip maps. I'd far prefer them on line 1 paired with a system map nearby. I just returned from Madrid and was reminded how simple their strip maps are on some lines - just applied as stickers. They have a very large and complex metro system but their car and station signage is excellent so it's easy to navigate.
 
I'm a big fan of the strip maps. I'd far prefer them on line 1 paired with a system map nearby. I just returned from Madrid and was reminded how simple their strip maps are on some lines - just applied as stickers. They have a very large and complex metro system but their car and station signage is excellent so it's easy to navigate.
I found Tokyo easier - even though I don't speak the language (I think they have some complicated system where you have to pay different fares to switch to certain lines, but for tourists it's all included in one price). They give each line a letter (and colour) and each station a number. Each platform tells you whether the train will head in the direction that the station number is increasing or decreasing. No need to memorize the name of the terminal station - which is difficult to do when in a foreign language.

Let's say you want to go to Takadanobaba station. I'd forget that name in no time. But it's station is T03. Looking at the map, the Tozai (T) line is teal blue. All I need to do is locate the line on the map and find one station. The I know to move up or down the numbers until I locate my station. When I reach the platform, it doesn't say the direction as "away from downtown" or "westbound" or towards Nishi-funabashi, it just shows a sign for number getting bigger (ascending) or smaller.

In Madrid, if I want to go to Atocha Renfe, on line 1, again I look for the teal line, but I need to scour it from one end to the other to figure out exactly were that station is. With the labels of many lines being written quite close together, I likely miss it on the first pass and have to re-scan. Then when getting to a platform on the correct line, I have to remember which terminal station I am heading towards. Names like Pinar De Chamartin or Valledecarros are much harder to memorize than (I need to go up - ascending order, or down).

Once your on your train, it's much easier to figure out that your on the wrong train in Tokyo. When you see the numbers getting bigger when you had hoped they would get smaller, you know your on the wrong train. In Madrid, odds are you did not memorize the adjacent station names where you got on, say Puenta de Vellecas or Nueva Numancia, so either you wait a few stops and realize that you station did not arrive, or you are constantly fumbling with your map to ensure you are going the right way.

Once your on the right train, right direction, the Tokyo method is better again because it's easy to do the math to figure out how many station stops you have to be on the train for - it's simple math (hopefully everyone can do subtraction).

The line map portion does work, an I believe Tokyo has it too.
If the signage is for the everyday commuter, they could put up almost anything and they would figure it out. The signage is there for the occasional passenger or tourist.

The above explains why if Toronto was smart, they would have lettered their lines instead of numbering - and why I refuse to refer to Toronto transit lines by number. Each line already had a name, so using "Y" line and "B" line would have been so much easier to transition, and more logical too.
 
The above explains why if Toronto was smart, they would have lettered their lines instead of numbering - and why I refuse to refer to Toronto transit lines by number. Each line already had a name, so using "Y" line and "B" line would have been so much easier to transition, and more logical too.
It can still work with a number only system. Each station assigned a three-digit number. First digit being the line number. Finch is 101, North York Centre 102,...
 

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