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TTC: Automatic Train Control and Subway Platform Screen Doors

I don't quite understand how the TSSA can allow a non-barriered subway line to exist. This agency is cherry-picking every other industry with some of the strictest safety standards in the world.

Why wouldn't they? Should they add barriers to all the 4 stops a day gotrain stops? How do they allow streetcar boarding in the middle of the street? I find that much more precarious. It is all about balance of risk, not complete avoidance.
 
From today's Star: Suicide Barriers a Waste of TTC's Money http://thestar.blogs.com/yourcitymy...solated-and-unemployed-its-true--as-some.html

Transportation has been identified as one of the major obstacles keeping the poor isolated and unemployed. Its true- as some of the posts have rightly asserted- that compared to small towns and northern communities, our system is amazing. But that shouldn't stop us from making it better and more accessible. I quite like the fare-by-distance traveled notion, there is a fairness about it.

And add to that what some small cities are trying, such as extending the time a transfer is valid to allow for shopping and appointments, or having free subway rides in the downtown core from 10-3. I enjoyed reading most of the posts, although a few left me scratching my head, such as the one that lumped the mentally ill and conservatives together. And speaking of the mentally ill, the cash-strapped TTC has recently decided to spend $10 million per station building suicide barriers. Three stations are targeted, and they will be in place by 2015.

Last evening I was with a group of psychiatric survivors, people who've been diagnosed with serious mental illnesses who have a passing acquaintance with suicidal thoughts and acts, and I asked them about these proposed barriers.

A good use of limited funds? A resounding "No!"

If there are millions just sitting around waiting for a bad idea to devolve, then we really can afford to lower the price of a single ticket. And we would have enough dollars left over to hire a few survivors to patrol the platforms looking for signs of people in distress. And the TTC could sponsor stigma-busting ads, splash them all over the walls and the stairs the way they do for major corporations, so that people in trouble wouldn't feel so hesitant about seeking the help they need.

We cannot prevent every possible tragedy out there. We can however ensure that those who are poor and vulnerable and in need can access public transit when required -- for appointments, for job searches, to get to cooling centers on those days when the city experiences extreme heat alerts. A small step to make life worth living in the big city.

To those who blame the drivers and the ticket collectors: they are not the enemy, and don't deserve the kind of collective bashing that is going on these days. Funny how we never look up to see where the problems start, we're too busy beating up on those whose circumstances most closely mirror our own.
 
As much as you may disagree with me, there's no point in calling them "suicide barriers" because a suicidal person will find a way to commit suicide. For example, now that there are suicide barriers on the PCV, more people are jumping from Millwood Road and Overlea Boulevard. What it will prevent is accidental falls, especially by the visually impaired and people who get shoved. So why not just call them "safety barriers"? Or if you want brownie points for alliteration, perhaps the catchier "safety screens"
 
From today's Star: Suicide Barriers a Waste of TTC's Money http://thestar.blogs.com/yourcitymy...solated-and-unemployed-its-true--as-some.html

Transportation has been identified as one of the major obstacles keeping the poor isolated and unemployed. Its true- as some of the posts have rightly asserted- that compared to small towns and northern communities, our system is amazing. But that shouldn't stop us from making it better and more accessible. I quite like the fare-by-distance traveled notion, there is a fairness about it.

And add to that what some small cities are trying, such as extending the time a transfer is valid to allow for shopping and appointments, or having free subway rides in the downtown core from 10-3. I enjoyed reading most of the posts, although a few left me scratching my head, such as the one that lumped the mentally ill and conservatives together. And speaking of the mentally ill, the cash-strapped TTC has recently decided to spend $10 million per station building suicide barriers. Three stations are targeted, and they will be in place by 2015.

Last evening I was with a group of psychiatric survivors, people who've been diagnosed with serious mental illnesses who have a passing acquaintance with suicidal thoughts and acts, and I asked them about these proposed barriers.

A good use of limited funds? A resounding "No!"

If there are millions just sitting around waiting for a bad idea to devolve, then we really can afford to lower the price of a single ticket. And we would have enough dollars left over to hire a few survivors to patrol the platforms looking for signs of people in distress. And the TTC could sponsor stigma-busting ads, splash them all over the walls and the stairs the way they do for major corporations, so that people in trouble wouldn't feel so hesitant about seeking the help they need.

We cannot prevent every possible tragedy out there. We can however ensure that those who are poor and vulnerable and in need can access public transit when required -- for appointments, for job searches, to get to cooling centers on those days when the city experiences extreme heat alerts. A small step to make life worth living in the big city.

To those who blame the drivers and the ticket collectors: they are not the enemy, and don't deserve the kind of collective bashing that is going on these days. Funny how we never look up to see where the problems start, we're too busy beating up on those whose circumstances most closely mirror our own.

although it kinda makes sense. I think this artical is just downright stupid.

If there are millions just sitting around waiting for a bad idea to devolve, then we really can afford to lower the price of a single ticket.
she is just angry that the TTC raised fares. plus what do you want, a raised fare and and the TTC doing nothing or a raised fare and the TTC doing something to improve transit.

And we would have enough dollars left over to hire a few survivors to patrol the platforms looking for signs of people in distress.
people looking for signs of people in distress are:
A) potential a big waste of money (if they are getting paid) or not effective
B) not preventing accidents like people falling in the tracks
C) not preventing trash from landing on the tracks and keeping them clean
D) not improving the stations air quality
E) not cutting heating and cooling costs
F) not allowing for trains to pull into a crowded station with little worry of hitting ppl sticking there heads or any body part beyond the platform edge
G) last but not least not making the station look more like a real high capacity system like Hong Kong or Tokyo

and yet PSDs do all this things
And the TTC could sponsor stigma-busting ads, splash them all over the walls and the stairs the way they do for major corporations, so that people in trouble wouldn't feel so hesitant about seeking the help they need.
that is just naive bull crap a person that is ready to commit suicide will not look at the sign and say "that is a good idea i think i will go home and call it a day"
seriously man PSDs are expensive but at least they are effective at what they do.
 
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that is just naive bull crap a person that is ready to commit suicide will not look at the sign and say "that is a good idea i think i will go home and call it a day"
seriously man PSDs are expensive but at least they are effective at what they do and not a load of bullshit.

Let's not get too angry here, it's just a discussion. However, the point is valid.
 
Barriers...

I have too have to question the decision for these barriers to be installed. People who are suicidal are going to find some way to kill themselves and I don't see this actually deterring them.

A arguement could be made that behind the scenes, there are plenty of people jumping onto the tracks and causing havoc with operations and traumatizing TTC personnel but I doubt it. This seems like wasted money.
 
I have too have to question the decision for these barriers to be installed. People who are suicidal are going to find some way to kill themselves and I don't see this actually deterring them.

A arguement could be made that behind the scenes, there are plenty of people jumping onto the tracks and causing havoc with operations and traumatizing TTC personnel but I doubt it. This seems like wasted money.

They have actually proven that not to be the case, that is why the barrier on the Bloor Street viaduct has not led to an uptake of suicides elsewhere. This is explained:

The fatal attraction of 'suicide magnets' - thestar.com
10 Jan 2010 ... Well-known suicide magnets in the United Kingdom, including the ... The "Luminous Veil" suicide barrier on Toronto's Bloor Street viaduct. ...
www.thestar.com/.../748687--the-fatal-attraction-of-suicide-magnet


The reduction of delays, and the being able to run at full speed into a station are the main benefits however, and the only way to justify the cost.
 
They have actually proven that not to be the case, that is why the barrier on the Bloor Street viaduct has not led to an uptake of suicides elsewhere. This is explained:

The fatal attraction of 'suicide magnets' - thestar.com
10 Jan 2010 ... Well-known suicide magnets in the United Kingdom, including the ... The "Luminous Veil" suicide barrier on Toronto's Bloor Street viaduct. ...
www.thestar.com/.../748687--the-fatal-attraction-of-suicide-magnet


The reduction of delays, and the being able to run at full speed into a station are the main benefits however, and the only way to justify the cost.

also better or cheaper climate control, depending on how they do it (or even introduction of climate control in some stations) and a cleaner trackbed are a plus.
 
also better or cheaper climate control, depending on how they do it (or even introduction of climate control in some stations) and a cleaner trackbed are a plus.

It would be incredibly expensive to put in full height doors that are sealed enough to do climate control. The cleaner trackbed can come from less that full height door.
 
From the November-December 2010 Coupler:

(Previous administration) Commissioners approved in principle the recommendations in a report for a business case to install platform edge doors in the subway system. The project will be considered in the 2011-2015 Capital Program.

The installation of platform edge doors is closely co-ordinated with the re-signalling of the Yonge-University-Spadina Subway. Installation is scheduled to start in 2013 with the completion of the Yonge-University Loop by 2015. The second phase of construction would see platform edge doors installed on the rest of the Y-U-S line starting in 2020.

Last September, the TTC conducted a feasibility study for the installation of platform edge doors and recommended partially segregated, full-height edge doors for the subway system. Platform edge doors improve operating efficiency, prevent combustible debris from collecting at track level and prevent unauthorized persons from descending, or unintentionally falling, to track level. Platform edge doors are also an effective means of suicide prevention.

Wonder if the new Commissioners will reverse this?
 
Installation of platform doors is "approved in principle" to begin in 10 years. I don't think the new commission will ever know, discuss or care about it.
 
I used to think these sort of barriers were really stupid and pointless as well. But studies have shown that somehow they are effective at reducing suicides, so who am I to argue. I think people are opposed to any sort of public spending these days, no matter what the money is spent on.
 
Even if it doesn't prevent a suicide it prevents the impact a suicide has on a city dependant on a single subway line out of the core. The smoke at track level delay happens too often so an extra benefit. Lastly it creates platform organization... right now there are times at Bloor where people cram along the entire length of the platform and have no way to let people out without a pushing match. If there was an indicator of where the doors would be when the train stopped there could be a little more organization.
 
Even if it doesn't prevent a suicide it prevents the impact a suicide has on a city dependant on a single subway line out of the core. The smoke at track level delay happens too often so an extra benefit. Lastly it creates platform organization... right now there are times at Bloor where people cram along the entire length of the platform and have no way to let people out without a pushing match. If there was an indicator of where the doors would be when the train stopped there could be a little more organization.

PSDs aren't the only way of indicating where a train will stop. The TTC is getting ATC regardless of whether there are platform screen doors, so trains will always stop in the same place. Then all you need is to put a marker where the doors will be.

They do this in BART stations:

[video=youtube;QRneQ3v3KFQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRneQ3v3KFQ[/video]
 

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