Transit Secrets: Learning From Hong Kong

[M II A II R II K]

Actually Transit City isn't a bad plan the main objection was that it was the only plan.

 

[BMO]

Erm, what?? Here I thought UrbanToronto was all about Transit-Oriented Development? i.e. it being the only possible justification for the Vaughan portion of the TYSSE.

This is the first I've heard of anyone being against development to support transit. Frankly, it sounds rather ridiculous and NIMBYish.

VCC is imperative so that Vaughan can meet it's places to grow mandate. There is NO requirement for Toronto to intensify along Sheppard. Nor does it make sense to...

expanding westwards on the other hand makes plenty of sense. (some of the greatest concentration of condos in the inner suburbs can be found along the Bathurst corridor)

A BRT for the immediate future on Sheppard east, followed by a progression to LRT as Condos are built, and then ultimately a subway as density increases along the corridor)

A Bus/LRT in a dedicated ROW will go faster than any bus service ever has on Sheppard.

 

[Mapleson]

Let me be clear here. I don’t want the transit agencies or highway departments to be only concerned with making a profit for their shareholders, which is how private businesses act. I want them to make a profit for the public, so that roads can be maintained well, taxes and fares kept down.

The City has billions in property already and it's not earning very much. Why would the TTC be able to do this better than what we've already done?

That said, I like the idea of leasing building footprints built into TTC stations, thereby giving the City steady income while giving private companies the latitude to make the most of it.

Though I'm not advocating this, the TTC's 80%+ fare recovery very strongly suggests that if it paid its workers minimum wage, eliminated a handful of high-cost routes and automated some processes, it could make a consistent profit. I don't think making money should be an objective, however, and I think that we should even accept a modest drop in fare recovery in order to make the service more comfortable and affordable.

That depends on how you define a profit. TTC's high farebox recovery rate is partially created by overstuffing the Capital budget because that's where more senior government money goes. If we were to raise fares (without affecting usage) by 20% to $3.75, we'd still not be able to afford all of the 10-Year Capital Budget ($2.3b shortfall vs $1.96b extra revenue over 10 years).

The development story, on the other hand, is a fiasco. The TTC has now been planning to sell the Eglinton bus terminal site for redevelopment through three property booms. How can it possibly take that long to sell a plot of land to developers? If there's something that hasn't quite been worked out about future construction, just keep a large enough envelope to accommodate all possibilities.

Maybe they didn't find the right offer? I'd prefer they keep assets for the future, if they can't get full or better market value.

That's ludicrous. First of all, the Sheppard subway isn't underused. It's as well-used as countless other rapid transit lines around the world. A line doesn't have to be at a constant crush load to be well-used. In fact, being at a constant crush load is a bad thing. Secondly, I can't imagine a better place for development than along a rapid transit line, especially one with spare capacity. Should development instead be directed away from rapid transit lines that transit geeks don't like?

Average weekday ridership is 47,700 with 83% of the volume riding from end to end. If Sheppard were not underused, why does it not decrease headways during rush hour? It' 5.5 minutes between trains on Sundays off-peak and it's still 5.5 Monday rush.

VCC is imperative so that Vaughan can meet it's places to grow mandate. There is NO requirement for Toronto to intensify along Sheppard. Nor does it make sense to...

expanding westwards on the other hand makes plenty of sense. (some of the greatest concentration of condos in the inner suburbs can be found along the Bathurst corridor)

A BRT for the immediate future on Sheppard east, followed by a progression to LRT as Condos are built, and then ultimately a subway as density increases along the corridor)

A Bus/LRT in a dedicated ROW will go faster than any bus service ever has on Sheppard.

The fact that 83% of people get on Sheppard at Don Mills means there is demand to see it expand east. An LRT would have been sufficient for the volumes anticipated, but I wouldn't complain if a subway actually gets built. Any sort of deticated ROW would relieve a lot of pressure around Sheppard/404. Connecting out to the Scarborough Town Centre would change our giant C into a full loop. Network-wise it is a benefit, we just are stuck in the place where we have to choose one of twelve worthwhile things. In such a world, a Sheppard Subway is overinvestment.

 

[M II A II R II K]

The City has billions in property already and it's not earning very much. Why would the TTC be able to do this better than what we've already done?

That said, I like the idea of leasing building footprints built into TTC stations, thereby giving the City steady income while giving private companies the latitude to make the most of it.

The TTC would only have to use the money for for transit projects, not everything else in the city. And then there's that thing about stockholders raising money on top of that.