Transit Fantasy Maps

[micheal_can]

So apparently Kipling Station has a roughed-in LRT platform. This is what I would like to see done with it, to connect downtown Mississauga with suburbs to the east and maybe west along Dundas Street.

View attachment 171735
There are four possible configurations of the route: along the CP Galt right-of-way where possible, along Dundas Street west of Scarlett, along the CP Galt ROW west of Cawthra only, or along the CP Galt ROW between Dixie and Kipling only. At a bare minimum, the route would go from Hurontario to Kipling.

The route could be extended to Wolfedale or Erindale GO to the west (I don't believe it will be necessary west of the Credit except maybe to reach the U of T campus), and up to Gunns Loop in the east. It's also possible for the line to transition into the St. Clair streetcar, for a one-seat ride from downtown Mississauga to uptown Toronto. Only the major stops are shown in my diagram, most likely there would be infill stations at Stanfield, East Mall, Islington, Jane/Rockcliffe etc.

Those were there so that an ERT (using SRT technology) could have been built. https://www.blogto.com/city/2012/06/whatever_happened_to_the_etobicoke_rt/

 

[Bureaucromancer]

So apparently Kipling Station has a roughed-in LRT platform. This is what I would like to see done with it, to connect downtown Mississauga with suburbs to the east and maybe west along Dundas Street.

View attachment 171735
There are four possible configurations of the route: along the CP Galt right-of-way where possible, along Dundas Street west of Scarlett, along the CP Galt ROW west of Cawthra only, or along the CP Galt ROW between Dixie and Kipling only. At a bare minimum, the route would go from Hurontario to Kipling.

The route could be extended to Wolfedale or Erindale GO to the west (I don't believe it will be necessary west of the Credit except maybe to reach the U of T campus), and up to Gunns Loop in the east. It's also possible for the line to transition into the St. Clair streetcar, for a one-seat ride from downtown Mississauga to uptown Toronto. Only the major stops are shown in my diagram, most likely there would be infill stations at Stanfield, East Mall, Islington, Jane/Rockcliffe etc.

I'd seriously say skip the Kipling platform for this; save it for a 427 LRT. The GO station would be more suitable for this even if it were built as segregated LRT rather than a tram-train.

 

[pstogios]

So apparently Kipling Station has a roughed-in LRT platform. This is what I would like to see done with it, to connect downtown Mississauga with suburbs to the east and maybe west along Dundas Street.

View attachment 171735
There are four possible configurations of the route: along the CP Galt right-of-way where possible, along Dundas Street west of Scarlett, along the CP Galt ROW west of Cawthra only, or along the CP Galt ROW between Dixie and Kipling only. At a bare minimum, the route would go from Hurontario to Kipling.

The route could be extended to Wolfedale or Erindale GO to the west (I don't believe it will be necessary west of the Credit except maybe to reach the U of T campus), and up to Gunns Loop in the east. It's also possible for the line to transition into the St. Clair streetcar, for a one-seat ride from downtown Mississauga to uptown Toronto. Only the major stops are shown in my diagram, most likely there would be infill stations at Stanfield, East Mall, Islington, Jane/Rockcliffe etc.

Etobicokans and Mississaugans deserve better than a streetcar that travels in the same direction as the subway, forcing a transfer that their gentle bodies can not handle. Don’t you respect Etobicoke? Subways subways subways.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

Etobicokans and Mississaugans deserve better than a streetcar that travels in the same direction as the subway, forcing a transfer that their gentle bodies can not handle. Don’t you respect Etobicoke? Subways subways subways.

Tongue in cheek or not, I'd suggest something along these lines as all around most reasonable, presuming we can get Transport Canada permission for a tram-train. 427 I waffle on BRT vs LRT (I lean toward BRT so long as the Mississauga Transitway remains and the 407 Transitway is in the picture, but at the same time LRT probably serves Toronto itself better, especially given that if this were built as a whole Mississauga to Subway traffic is going to be pushed off the transitway) and I could imagine arguments either way for service patterns out to Port Credit re: Lake Shore or Queensway, but the way I show it nicely illustrates what I'd want to build.

:

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Etobicokans and Mississaugans deserve better than a streetcar that travels in the same direction as the subway, forcing a transfer that their gentle bodies can not handle. Don’t you respect Etobicoke? Subways subways subways.

I would not worry too much. West-enders are not so fragile in their sensitivities as Scarberians. They are a hardy people. They must travel by bus to Kipling station, sometimes even paying the $3.75 MiWay fare, before transferring onto a subway.

Look at the hand South Etobicoke has been dealt. Scarborough would have declared bloody murder if Scarborough Town Centre was anywhere near as dense and without rapid transit as Humber Bay Shores is.

 

[44 North]

I would not worry too much. West-enders are not so fragile in their sensitivities as Scarberians. They are a hardy people. They must travel by bus to Kipling station, sometimes even paying the $3.75 MiWay fare, before transferring onto a subway.

Look at the hand South Etobicoke has been dealt. Scarborough would have declared bloody murder if Scarborough Town Centre was anywhere near as dense and without rapid transit as Humber Bay Shores is.

Seems a bit off and arrogant. For starters "Scarborough Town Centre" is the name of the mall, not the area making up Scarb Centre. Then there's the fact that Scarb Ctr has higher density pockets well beyond that of Humber Bay Shores. Even areas just outside the SC planning district rival HBS/south Etobicoke and will be doing so for quite some time. Why do people act like there's nothing there. Have you ever been on the 401 or rode Line 3?

 

[north-of-anything]

Tongue in cheek or not, I'd suggest something along these lines as all around most reasonable, presuming we can get Transport Canada permission for a tram-train. 427 I waffle on BRT vs LRT (I lean toward BRT so long as the Mississauga Transitway remains and the 407 Transitway is in the picture, but at the same time LRT probably serves Toronto itself better, especially given that if this were built as a whole Mississauga to Subway traffic is going to be pushed off the transitway) and I could imagine arguments either way for service patterns out to Port Credit re: Lake Shore or Queensway, but the way I show it nicely illustrates what I'd want to build.
View attachment 171736:

I'm assuming by BRT you mean a dedicated ROW on or parallel to Highway 427. I think it could work in the same capacity as the Mississauga Transitway, where the roadway an also be used for cross-Etobicoke buses. I would also extend the 427 route down to Sherway, maybe extending Line 2 to terminate at Cloverdale since all TTC subway lines must end at shopping malls (/s). For the unused upper platform at Kipling, that could be a separate stop for the tram-train.

My biggest concern with this layout is the routing of the tram-train at its two ends:
- In the east, I still think the line should connect to or replace the 512. There's a planned SmartTrack station on the Kitchener line at St. Clair, if I recall correctly, which would make for an easy transfer to Union instead of putting more strain on the rail corridor. This alignment would also allow for better development north of the rail corridor around Jane.
- In the west, my big concern is whether there is space on the Hurontario ROW. I would instead have a stop at Cooksville GO, and have the line either follow Confederation Parkway to Square One or replace the Milton GO entirely.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Seems a bit off and arrogant. For starters "Scarborough Town Centre" is the name of the mall, not the area making up Scarb Centre. Then there's the fact that Scarb Ctr has higher density pockets well beyond that of Humber Bay Shores. Even areas just outside the SC planning district rival HBS/south Etobicoke and will be doing so for quite some time. Why do people act like there's nothing there. Have you ever been on the 401 or rode Line 3?

I am being very tongue in cheek.

I think you are mistaken however. I don't think there are any areas in Scarborough that are approaching the density of HBS. Though, the Agincourt & Metrogate area may be approaching HBS levels soon. Once the market decides that the land near STC is worth developing, it might build out. However, I think the Eglinton corridor, especially the Golden Mile, will realize growth before STC.

This entire discussion is in some ways a commentary on how ridiculous our transit priorities are in the city. It should be reminded that Scarborough Town Centre and Square One in Mississauga, are equidistant from downtown Toronto. It would be curious how different transit discussions would look like if Mississauga was eaten by Toronto during amalgamation.

 

[44 North]

I am being very tongue in cheek.

I think you are mistaken however. I don't think there are any areas in Scarborough that are approaching the density of HBS. Though, the Agincourt & Metrogate area may be approaching HBS levels soon. Once the market decides that the land near STC is worth developing, it might build out. However, I think the Eglinton corridor, especially the Golden Mile, will realize growth before STC.

This entire discussion is in some ways a commentary on how ridiculous our transit priorities are in the city. It should be reminded that Scarborough Town Centre and Square One in Mississauga, are equidistant from downtown Toronto. It would be curious how different transit discussions would look like if Mississauga was eaten by Toronto during amalgamation.

Unless you have access to future census' I don't think that's a safe bet to make. And what about this "reminder" re: distance from Downtown I've seen you claim numerous times in the past? Map it out: SC and Square One are most definitely not "equidistant from downtown". SC, 17km - literally to SC station. Square One: 22km, that's five km farther. So you're wrong about that, but regardless I've yet to see you make these 'equidistant' claims when it concerns Vaughan, or Richmond Hill - which is notable since both actually are on par with Square One's distance (unlike SC). Map it out, and definitely "remind" people when you do.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

I'm assuming by BRT you mean a dedicated ROW on or parallel to Highway 427. I think it could work in the same capacity as the Mississauga Transitway, where the roadway an also be used for cross-Etobicoke buses. I would also extend the 427 route down to Sherway, maybe extending Line 2 to terminate at Cloverdale since all TTC subway lines must end at shopping malls (/s). For the unused upper platform at Kipling, that could be a separate stop for the tram-train.

Exactly - basically the options as I see them are to build such a 427 line as essentially a further extension of the Finch LRT or as an extension of the Mississauga transitway; I lean toward BRT given the multitude of service patterns, doubly so if we could continue up 4/27 and connect to the 407 transitway (which would seem more sensible to me than going all the way to Brampton in the 407 corridor properly and missing both the airport adn connections to the Missassauga transitway . Sherway isn't a BAD idea, but if it includes a subway extension seems more an alternative to the Tram-Train, and one that doesn't really solve the poor connectivity between Mississauga Centre and the city (while quite possibly costing at least as much given the subway extension and how little new construction is needed for a Tram-Train once CP track time is available).

My biggest concern with this layout is the routing of the tram-train at its two ends:
- In the east, I still think the line should connect to or replace the 512. There's a planned SmartTrack station on the Kitchener line at St. Clair, if I recall correctly, which would make for an easy transfer to Union instead of putting more strain on the rail corridor. This alignment would also allow for better development north of the rail corridor around Jane.
- In the west, my big concern is whether there is space on the Hurontario ROW. I would instead have a stop at Cooksville GO, and have the line either follow Confederation Parkway to Square One or replace the Milton GO entirely.

Your point about rail corridor capacity is well taken, but in my view one of the big things that make this attractive IS the one seat ride and how little of it is actually in mixed traffic. OTOH if such a thing was up and running it probably means that CP has been moved in some fashion, so thinking about the midtown corridor becomes a possibility. As far as Hurontario, what on earth do you mean? The point is that this is a tram-train, running on the LRT; I haven't hear of Metrolinx planning anything like the kind of frequencies that would be problematic for adding a few more trains an hour to a rather small section of the route.

 

[Johnny Au]

Etobicokans and Mississaugans deserve better than a streetcar that travels in the same direction as the subway, forcing a transfer that their gentle bodies can not handle. Don’t you respect Etobicoke? Subways subways subways.

Upon seeing that Scarborough's going to get maglev technology, Etobicokans and Mississaugans would demand maglevs! Maglevs! Maglevs! Maglevs!

 

[JSF-1]

Upon seeing that Scarborough's going to get maglev technology,

You joke but that's what Scarborough got.

 

[muller877]

Upon seeing that Scarborough's going to get maglev technology, Etobicokans and Mississaugans would demand maglevs! Maglevs! Maglevs! Maglevs!

Actually my prediction is that the next transit actually built and usable after Line 5 will be the Zoo-mobile. Which is planning to be Maglev in Scarborough.

(can be built in 1-2 years after they get funding so not that hard to imagine)

 

[Leo_Chan]

@BurlOak Here's your map, but better looking:

The Google Earth Pro file link too.

 

[BurlOak]

@BurlOak Here's your map, but better looking:
View attachment 171891
The Google Earth Pro file link too.

Thanks, I deliberately wanted the B-D line a bit lighter shade of green to contrast with the GO line - but I suppose the GO lines could become lighter. I also wanted to avoid red for any lines, as they are reserved for streetcars and buses - this orange is good.
Can you turn off the "earth" in Google Earth? Google Map has street and satellite view, but not Google Earth?.