Transit Fantasy Maps

[Swarley]

I wasn't exactly sure where to post this question but I figure here is as good of a place as any. Does anyone know the following 2 things? I'm just doing some work on some detailed drawings of downtown, and I need to know these to determine future stop spacing.

1) How long the standard TTC subway platform length is?
2) What is the average distance from platform end to platform beginning in the downtown portions of the line?

Much appreciated

1) Platform length is about 150m.. +/- say 10 m.
2) Not too sure, I'd guess between 600 - 800 m but you could probably read it off Google Maps, if you know the station exit locations and platform lengths.

 

[gweed123]

Thank you both! I'm trying to determine whether or not there actually is enough space, using a Wellington alignment, to fit 3 new DRL platforms in downtown (1 between Bay and York, 1 going west from University, and 1 going east from Yonge). Looks like there is, haha.

 

[jwill]

There is enough space for platforms, but the train will be entering one station before it has fully left the previous one. I think people can manage the walk (underground if desired) between Yonge and University just fine.

 

[dunkalunk]

I really think there needs two be two stations on this part of the DRL. One directly under University ave with surface exits to York, Simcoe, and one between Bay and Yonge integrated into the PATH network. For those going to the Union train station, which station you get off at will depend on which direction you're coming from, and will help to dissipate foot traffic from a single transfer (Think Union Subway Station)

 

[gweed123]

There is enough space for platforms, but the train will be entering one station before it has fully left the previous one. I think people can manage the walk (underground if desired) between Yonge and University just fine.

That was another option I was examining. Have a platform between Bay and York, with Spadina-like pedestrian connections to King and St. Andrew, with a shorter walkway to Union. And yes, I'm examining the validity of having the DRL use a Wellington alignment.

The other option I was looking at was the 3 platforms, with the King platform extending nearly to Church St, and the St. Andrew platform extending to Duncan St/Metro Hall.

 

[Fresh Start]

Why not have separate distinct stations at John, Bay and Church Sts? St Andrew and King Stns do not need a direct connection within a fare-paid zone. Most people aboard a YUS inbound train will simply until the train gets down to Union before transferring and vice-versa. This is why Spadina (YUS) to/from Spadina (B-D) is the poorest performing of the TTC's transfer stations, because people are lazy and would prefer not to walk over 200 metres in order to switch trains.

 

[gweed123]

Why not have separate distinct stations at John, Bay and Church Sts? St Andrew and King Stns do not need a direct connection within a fare-paid zone. Most people aboard a YUS inbound train will simply until the train gets down to Union before transferring and vice-versa. This is why Spadina (YUS) to/from Spadina (B-D) is the poorest performing of the TTC's transfer stations, because people are lazy and would prefer not to walk over 200 metres in order to switch trains.

My reasoning behind it is two-fold:

1) Crowd dispersal: Bloor-Yonge has taught us the dangers of only have 1 transfer point between lines. Having multiple transfer points in a small area allows people to choose which transfer is most convenient for them, not which one is available.

2) PATH connections: St. Andrew and King stations already have extensive PATH connections to them. Creating new stations beyond the current PATH network will reduce the likelihood of PATH-bound passengers to use them. The argument could be used that it will help extend the PATH network, but stations at Church and John will be too far away from the CBD to be of much use for people wishing to go there.

I see the transfers arranged like this: The south ends of the YUS platform (King and St. Andrew) end between King and Wellington. The DRL platforms will be directly underneath Wellington. The St. Andrew platform will begin at University and end at Duncan, while the King platform will begin at Yonge and end near Church. This would allow for an end-of-platform staircase/escalator down to the lower level, which would bring you onto the ends of the DRL platforms (much like at Bloor-Yonge, where the entrances for the B-D platform is at the far north end of the Yonge platform).

And with Union, well the distance between Wellington and Front is 150m, not too far for someone to walk at all. Many people walk even further than that when they go from Union GO up to Bay and King every day.

 

[nfitz]

2) Not too sure, I'd guess between 600 - 800 m but you could probably read it off Google Maps, if you know the station exit locations and platform lengths.

I'd guess closer to 400 metres. It's only about 2,400 metres from Bloor to King. if 600 metres of that are platforms then that is 1800 metres for 5 legs ... 360 metres.

 

[Second_in_pie]

The other option I was looking at was the 3 platforms, with the King platform extending nearly to Church St, and the St. Andrew platform extending to Duncan St/Metro Hall.

This is my favorite alignment, actually. The only possible problem is that there would be 4 stations which between them the subway probably wouldn't be able to get to top speed because they're so close. But I think that serving Jarvis and St. Lawrence Market, Yonge St. and link to King Station, Bay and link to Union, and University with a link to Metro Hall are all important
Worst case and it can't be fit in, combine the Bay and Yonge stations. The other two would be too important to axe.

 

[gweed123]

This is my favorite alignment, actually. The only possible problem is that there would be 4 stations which between them the subway probably wouldn't be able to get to top speed because they're so close. But I think that serving Jarvis and St. Lawrence Market, Yonge St. and link to King Station, Bay and link to Union, and University with a link to Metro Hall are all important
Worst case and it can't be fit in, combine the Bay and Yonge stations. The other two would be too important to axe.

But remember, speed only really matters when you're getting people TO where they want to go. Once they're already there, it's connectivity and convenience that matters, so small station spacing isn't really an issue, as most people will be going TO downtown, not THROUGH downtown.

But I never really thought about combining the Bay and Yonge platforms before, and then having the next platform centred right at Jarvis, interesting concept.

 

[Fresh Start]

Yonge and Bay do not need to be separate stations. Yonge is totally redundant. It's Bay, a mere 100m west, where the bulk of congestion lies. An extra-wide station box for the CBD Stn (225m) which would extend the platform area from Bay to almost York St, maximizes direct access potential and interface with all three of St Andrew-Union-King (under 100m or 60 seconds walking distance transfer between all). John and Jarvis/Church are not to be skipped over, as demand into both of these districts would be extremely high.

 

[EnviroTO]

I agree that there should be three stations serving the core. One on university stretching westward and connecting to King, one on Bay stretching westward with a corridor to Union under Bay, and one at Yonge stretching eastward.

 

[nfitz]

I agree that there should be three stations serving the core. One on university stretching westward and connecting to King, one on Bay stretching westward with a corridor to Union under Bay, and one at Yonge stretching eastward.

Why not simply have the platform stretch east from St. Andrew and west from King? If you did that, it would only be about 250 metres from the end of one platform to the beginning of the next, and you could access Bay from the west end of the King platform, and the St. Andrew platform would intersect both University and York?

 

[jwill]

I agree with the two station approach. It makes for easier transfers, has twice the capacity, and has redundancy.

 

[gweed123]

I agree with the two station approach. It makes for easier transfers, has twice the capacity, and has redundancy.

The only problem that I can see with that (specifically with tourists), is the confusion of what to name the station. It's never been done before that 1 platform links up with 2 seperate stations (maybe even 3) on the same line. I guess calling it 'Union', even though it does connect to both St. Andrew and King would be the most likely solution.