Ansem
Banned
The city would have to borrow the money...Not something I would see Ford do...
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Transit City: Sheppard East Debate
- Thread starter unimaginative2
- Start date
The city would have to borrow the money...Not something I would see Ford do...
nfitz
Superstar
I don't believe the building code allows for the use of such narrow tunnels any more - but I could be wrong; perhaps the change was before Sheppard East was constructed.
Either way, the TBMs finished their work over 10 years ago. We are likely 4-5 years before we'd be ready to put TBMs into the ground again on Sheppard. That's well past their lifespan. It's more cost-effective to purchase new ones.
Ansem
Banned
I meant the spadina TBM machines
nfitz
Superstar
That's a possibility. They should be ready for re-use sometime in 2014. If Ford manages to find funding for any of this subway proposals, the timing might work. Well that's $50 million found ... $3.95 billion to go!
lead82
Senior Member
How much would it cost to realistically finish the Sheppard line Downview to SCC? I'd think about $1B to do the western leg, and $2.5B to do the eastern leg. I think the main driver in subway construction costs is the huge stations that the TTC builds. If they keep station costs down to $50M each then we could actually finish what we started using the funds McGuinty gave TTC for SELRT, Finch LRT. I'd be ok sacrificing the Finch LRT and SELRT in favour of having a completed Sheppard line as I think it'll be a better network to have a completed E-W subway line above the 401 and reduces the vehicle type transfers on Sheppard.
Ansem
Banned
Finch West can be easily improved by adding Express buses and reserved lanes. At the momenet, it has none of them
lafard
Active Member
Realistically, in 2001 they estimated the York University to VCC extension would cost 1383 million; actual funding is 2630 millions or 195%.
The same study predicted 1535 million for Sheppard east to STC, which is about 2995 million in 2007 dollars, or somewhere around 3.5 billion today.
(source : http://transit.toronto.on.ca/archives/reports/rtes2002.pdf )
They studied a westward extension of the Sheppard line as part of the yard needs study for the Richmond Hill extension. Option II (Wilson yard expansion) was estimated at 575 million dollars; option 2 + Sheppard extension with interconnections was estimated at 2322 million. The westward extension alone was thus about 1.8 billion dollars.
(source: http://www3.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Co...mber_17_2009/Reports/Yonge_University_Spa.pdf )
In total we're talking about 5.3 billion dollars for the full line.
If I had that much money lying around, I would spend a billion on LRT in the north end and put the other 4 billion into starting the DRL, which will be a 10-15 billion dollar project.
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W. K. Lis
Superstar
nfitz
Superstar
That's a pretty reasonable guess if they started digging soon. If it's 5 years before digging starts (which seems likely), then add 30%.
quicksilver
Active Member
From around 9am, toward end of morning rush hour. This is fairly typical Sheppard traffic heading west into city in the morning, photographed just east of McCowan. The evening looks similar except the car lights are red.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Nothing a curbside bus lane could not help with. If you think this is spectacular than you obviously haven't gotten around the city much. Even in Malvern, roads like Markham are far worse during rush hour. It also goes to show you how flawed the priority list was, that building LRT here was placed above absolutely every other transit goal for this city.
This is not a justification for a billion dollar LRT in this area. Just give the buses their own lane. Problem solved. And for a fraction of the cost of the LRT. And for capacity, make them all artics or double-deckers (let's go London style).
nfitz
Superstar
If you widen the entire road from 4 to 6 lanes to add a curbside bus lane, you might as well just do the same to put the LRT in.
quicksilver
Active Member
Spectacularly frustrating perhaps. After living at Queen and University, I'm surprised how much traffic is out here. Busses are too cramped and won't encourage public transit use. Everyone knows this but are willing to look the other way cause it's Scarborough. A subway would be overkill...as it is with Vaughan. LRT is just right, and is the correct technology to connect the borough's educational facilities, UT Scarborough and Centennial College, with STC and Don Mills Station. When the Sheppard line is built it will also relieve pressure on McCowan and Markham Roads and in Malvern.
lafard
Active Member
You kind of picked a bad day because the first snow turns drivers into idiots, but point taken.
I can hardly wait to see our new LRTs gliding down the middle of that road. That's the thing we need to drive home: still exactly the same amount of traffic space with the LRT, and will improve the local transit service dramatically.
Subway will never be built there. It is difficult to see how the subway would help that traffic at all; given that all proposals have the subway veering south off Sheppard around Kennedy or so, 3km further west of there. In fact, McCowan is just about the break-even point timewise where the higher speed of the subway is offset by the slower speed of the buses over the constants speed of the LRT.
No doubt that's just about the perfect site for LRT. Subway is a waste of money, but the buses are crowded and bogged down in traffic.
I can hardly wait to see our new LRTs gliding down the middle of that road. That's the thing we need to drive home: still exactly the same amount of traffic space with the LRT, and will improve the local transit service dramatically.
Subway will never be built there. It is difficult to see how the subway would help that traffic at all; given that all proposals have the subway veering south off Sheppard around Kennedy or so, 3km further west of there. In fact, McCowan is just about the break-even point timewise where the higher speed of the subway is offset by the slower speed of the buses over the constants speed of the LRT.
No doubt that's just about the perfect site for LRT. Subway is a waste of money, but the buses are crowded and bogged down in traffic.
rbt
Senior Member
Does anybody have a breakdown on the land cost for the LRT projects? Tunnel would be another one. If you build BRT you still have the tunnel and land acquisition components to deal with.