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Transit City: Sheppard East Debate

Anyone who has ever used Leslie would be aware that the subway tracks crosses over the Don River just east of the station. The station is no more underground, than a house built into the side of a hill. It has to be one of the shallowest, if not the shallowest, stations on the system; other than the outdoor ones. What's deceiving is how high the Leslie/Sheppard interssection has been built up from ground surface. Yes, I suppose technically part of the tracks are below natural ground surface, though at the east end of the station, track level is no deeper than your average basement.

In other words, the station is completely underground. Yes, we know that.

If a house was underground except for a chimney sticking up out of the yard to let Santa Claus in and smoke out, then it'd be comparable to Leslie. Wellesley's 'mezzanine' is at street level and Sheppard's Yonge platform will only be a few feet from the sidewalk once the connection at Hullmark is built. Shockingly, they are both shallow *and* underground.

Is this true for BRT also? If so, York Region is building one massive white elephant.

Edit: or maybe this is specific to Sheppard, in which case, carry on.

Yeah, I'm talking about Sheppard. Did "along Sheppard" give it away?

As for York, a few BRT/LRT lines can be successful just by consolidating existing routes, encouraging leisure trips, and due to population growth...unlike the TTC, York Region has a long way to go before they need to worry about really shifting any quantity of car drivers onto transit.
 
unlike the TTC, York Region has a long way to go before they need to worry about really shifting any quantity of car drivers onto transit.

Did you really just say this? York Region's only hope of not choking to death in the coming years is to shift car drivers to transit.
 
Anyone who has ever used Leslie would be aware that the subway tracks crosses over the Don River just east of the station. The station is no more underground, than a house built into the side of a hill..
Hardly anyone who uses Leslie knows or cares how the tracks cross the Don, and if polled, hardly anyone would answer that Leslie is not underground.
 
Does anyone know what the Transit City design standard for shelters is?

Will stations look like St Clair LRT?
Will the stations have dinky bus-shelter like structures or more elaborate structures like the ones for VIVA?
 
*cough* High floor LRT *cough*
Which would not be compatible with the physical design of Sheppard East, nor of the rest of Transit City. Unless we are proposing to redesign the route and create an orphan line with different equipment than everywhere else, that's not an option.
 
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Hardly anyone who uses Leslie knows or cares how the tracks cross the Don, and if polled, hardly anyone would answer that Leslie is not underground.
I think we've demonstrated on this forum that polls mean little, with 50% of the denizens of Urban Toronto wanting to cancel the Finch LRT, Sheppard East LRT, SRT extension and 2/3 of the Eglinton LRT, and instead build only 2 subway extensions to Scarborough Centre (one duplicating the existing SRT service) with the same money!

And then there's the 20% who believe that 9/11 was done by the US government. ...

When you have to walk up from the sidewalk to the mezzanine of the a subway station, clearly there was not that much excavation to build the station, semantics aside.
 
Did you really just say this? York Region's only hope of not choking to death in the coming years is to shift car drivers to transit.

Do you really think that a few quasi-BRT lines are the only potential transit improvements on York Region's horizon? How cute. Yeah, just forget about the Spadina and Yonge extensions, vastly improved GO service, joint-TTC lines like Don Mills/Leslie, luring non-drivers to developments along Yonge and #7, fare integration, etc....no, it all rests on a few BRT lines (that might be turned into full ROW LRT lines over time, anyway).
 
Do you really think that a few quasi-BRT lines are the only potential transit improvements on York Region's horizon? How cute. Yeah, just forget about the Spadina and Yonge extensions, vastly improved GO service, joint-TTC lines like Don Mills/Leslie, luring non-drivers to developments along Yonge and #7, fare integration, etc....no, it all rests on a few BRT lines (that might be turned into full ROW LRT lines over time, anyway).

because public transit should only be limited to ultra high capacity and/or non local, and/or regional purposes. And that York regional residents will not live anywhere else other than along Yonge st. and Jane st.
 
Do you really think that a few quasi-BRT lines are the only potential transit improvements on York Region's horizon? How cute. Yeah, just forget about the Spadina and Yonge extensions, vastly improved GO service, joint-TTC lines like Don Mills/Leslie, luring non-drivers to developments along Yonge and #7, fare integration, etc....no, it all rests on a few BRT lines (that might be turned into full ROW LRT lines over time, anyway).

I don't know what all this has to do with my disputing your quote: "unlike the TTC, York Region has a long way to go before they need to worry about really shifting any quantity of car drivers onto transit."
 
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/767161--porter-save-our-sheppard-group-missing-the-point
Porter: 'Save Our Sheppard' group missing the point

By Catherine Porter
Columnist
Denis Lanoue is the dream neighbour. As president of a residents' association in north Scarborough, he makes good things happen. The lights on a nearby walkway? Him. The kids' mural in a local park where graffiti once posed a problem? Him. The expansion of the local elementary school, so kids would learn in a building rather than portables? You get the point.

He clearly loves north Scarborough. That is a good thing. Except, he is so lovestruck, he's blind to his beloved's most obvious flaws.

Case in point: Sheppard Ave. The lonely trees. The scrubby grass separating grim apartment buildings. The yawning parking lots and sprawling car dealerships. He loves it all.

"It is a superb avenue," Lanoue says, taking me for a tour down Sheppard in his tan Ford van. Even during rush hour, it's a driver's dream – few cars, fewer pesky pedestrians, three empty lanes each way, right foot heavy on the gas, zipping along at a speed cars on the nearby 401 would envy.

"It's beautiful, being open like this."

Lanoue is part of Save Our Sheppard – a group of local residents opposing the light rail transit line already being built, although very slowly by the looks of it. The first of seven mostly suburban rail lines that make up Metrolinx's Transit City plan, it would seem to be a done deal, with the provincial and federal government cheques signed for the $950 million construction tab.

But the group hopes to spike the plan in favour of a more expensive subway, which they think will cause fewer traffic jams from cars lining up to make turns.

"This is all going to be congested," says Lanoue, a retired manager at Imperial Oil. "It's going to be a mess. There will be lots of accidents, and it won't be safe for pedestrians.

"It will divide the community."

What community? In our entire tour up the route, I see only one person walking along the street. He's dressed up as a giant red leaf with the words "Liberty Tax" scrawled across his chest.

Sure, cut inside the windy streets lined with two-door garages, and you catch glimpses of kids playing hockey and dog walkers chatting with one another on the sidewalk. But that is because they have their own space and are not being terrorized by careening cars.

I could understand Save Our Spadina, and Save Our St. Clair. Both streets are full of life and bustling businesses. But the only thing to save on Sheppard is time – which is the antithesis of community. Friends aren't made in a rush.

Now I have exposed myself as the inner city, latte-drinking, stroller-pushing, subway-hopping snob 905 ers love to hate, which is fair. Except I don't live in a tony neighbourhood. I live near Woodbine and Danforth, a place described by realtors as "up and coming" and by this newspaper as "seedy." I, too, love my neighbourhood and have spent time trying to improve it.

I organized a history walk last fall. There, I learned that 50 years ago, my neighbourhood was hopping with movie theatres, dance halls, taverns and cafes. Dozens of stores and businesses crowded a single block that is now desolate. It would now fit right in on Sheppard Ave.

What happened? The streetcar was replaced by the subway, and all the strolling shoppers went underground.

When I look at the architectural renderings of what the city plans for Sheppard Ave. in 30 years, I go green with envy. Five-storey buildings line the street, with retail stores and cafes at ground level spilling out onto the sidewalk. A cyclist pedals down a bike lane planned along with the LRT. Here's a street I'd love to walk down – stopping here to pick up glasses from an optometrist, buying a bouquet of fresh-cut flowers there before jumping on the LRT and heading home.

It would be something to savour. And save.

But I am the converted. I live in the dense city core and expect traffic jams the instant I turn on my car ignition.

It's suburbanites like Lanoue that the brains behind Transit City have to convert. And it won't be by "ramming plans down our throats," as he puts it.

It will require meetings and flexibility and a staff that is willing to listen to the people this system is aiming to serve and that recognizes that locals bring an insight and passion for the area that engineers and planners cannot.

The planners can't wait for the coffee shops to arrive and for the community building to start along Sheppard Ave. It has to start now.

Catherine Porter's column appears on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. She can be reached at cporter@thestar.ca
 
" What happened? The streetcar was replaced by the subway, and all the strolling shoppers went underground. "

Could They not put street car tracks back on top of bloor/danforth to bring people back to the stores and people back to the streets. Street car for local use and subway for commuting use...
 
To be honest the city didnt help bloor or the danforth when it didnt try to get medium sized buildings to surround the road... The danforth is made up of largely semi detached houses.. There needs to be more density.. But it wasnt possible because at the time people thought poorer people and dirty people lived downtown so they all left for the suburbs... Im sure bloor and danforth will be great in 20 yrs... It still would be nice for a street car line tho.
 
" What happened? The streetcar was replaced by the subway, and all the strolling shoppers went underground."
What a ridiculous article. I suppose someone forgot to tell the shoppers on here:
2050415186_a0ea486b9e.jpg

or here:
395965437_093f215cd5.jpg

or here:
3659940452_2c6d43c627.jpg

that building a subway is supposed to kill the neighbourhood's vibrancy and they should just "go underground".

Or they must have forgotten to tell people that suburbs/rural areas like this:
800px-LRT_Tai_Hing_South_Stop.jpg

or this:
img_73391.jpg

are supposed to turn into the next Nathan Road or Champs-Élysées.

(key -
streets with subways: Cheung Sha Wan Rd, HK; Blvd de Rochechouart, Paris; 14th St., NY
suburbs with LRT: Tuen Mun, HK; Folsom, Sacramento)
 
Neither mode is a guarantee of success or failure. All those successful streets are better designed and more pedestrian oriented than the hole we call East Danforth, though.
 

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