Transit City: Sheppard East Debate

[Juan_Lennon416]

I pointed out a while back that most people in Scarborough thought this was something like the SRT or a subway. People are finally understanding what LRT really is..

This is a section of the city (mainly Malvern) where people hardly engage in civic issues and always play the 'me don't know what's happening' card.

 

[kEiThZ]

Doesn't matter...the project is going ahead as planned

You're just a stand up guy aren't you? Cheering for the fact that you're community is not getting what they want.

This is a section of the city (mainly Malvern) where people hardly engage in civic issues and always play the 'me don't know what's happening' card.

So now when they do care and are engaged it doesn't count?

I would argue that their understanding of LRT is no different from other parts of the city. I'll bet money that residents around Peanut Plaza or in Rexdale or near York U aren't quite clear about LRT or even know about Transit City at all. This is reality. Most residents rarely know what's going on until they see guys with construction equipment on their street.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

You're just a stand up guy aren't you? Cheering for the fact that you're community is not getting what they want.

Not too sure where you are going with that drunk argument! Most of my community wants an LRT while the rest don't give a damn what's ever going on

I would argue that their understanding of LRT is no different from other parts of the city. I'll bet money that residents around Peanut Plaza or in Rexdale or near York U aren't quite clear about LRT or even know about Transit City at all. This is reality. Most residents rarely know what's going on until they see guys with construction equipment on their street.

This is a case of people not doing enough to educate themselves what an LRT is. Notices are sent in the mail and people just throw them to the side. LRT's are mentioned in the local newspaper and news shows, yet people keep saying they don't anything about the projects.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

The residents around Peanut Plaza or in Rexdale or near York U are just like many of the people in Malvern...they sit silently in the corner and never raise their concerns about plans. Then when the plan is being implemented or about to be implemented, then they start to complain.

I am tired of being drenched in SOS's tears that TC is being built in Toronto. Stop crying about the SELRT like babies!

 

[kettal]

Haab said he suspects putting Horne, a cyclist and transit user, in charge of publicity for the project is "like putting a fox in charge of the henhouse."

Wow, this line says it all.

Keithz, even you have to admit that a lot of the people who are opposed to this are either uninformed (i.e. they think that there will be lane reductions on Sheppard), or they are just opposed to transit in general. Not saying there's no legitimate criticisms of this project -- there are -- but most of the objections raised by the public are based on false information or misconceptions.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

Wow, this line says it all.

Keithz, even you have to admit that a lot of the people who are opposed to this are either uninformed (i.e. they think that there will be lane reductions on Sheppard), or they are just opposed to transit in general. Not saying there's no legitimate criticisms of this project -- there are -- but most of the objections raised by the public are based on false information or misconceptions.

People like Haab want to see a subway and would put up a foolish fight for a subway from Don Mills to about Markham Road.

Also, whenever the government tells you something, do your homework and double-check what they are saying!

 

[kEiThZ]

Wow, this line says it all.

Keithz, even you have to admit that a lot of the people who are opposed to this are either uninformed (i.e. they think that there will be lane reductions on Sheppard), or they are just opposed to transit in general. Not saying there's no legitimate criticisms of this project -- there are -- but most of the objections raised by the public are based on false information or misconceptions.

I disagree. There are, of course, those that are concerned about lane reductions (mostly small business owners who are worried about losing business), but there are far more people that I've come across who are surprised to find out what LRT actually is. Keep in mind that in Scarborough, when people hear RT they think SRT. That's the impression people had of LRT. Now they find out that this thing is more like a streetcar, that the median left turn lane is going to disappear and they are wondering what's next.

I don't think it's right for people to dismiss their concerns just because they don't fit somebody's world view.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

I don't think it's right for people to dismiss their concerns just because they don't fit somebody's world view.

No...their concerns are coming in too late! Again, where were the complaints months ago? How come these reisdents do not educate themselves more?

 

[kEiThZ]

The residents around Peanut Plaza or in Rexdale or near York U are just like many of the people in Malvern...they sit silently in the corner and never raise their concerns about plans. Then when the plan is being implemented or about to be implemented, then they start to complain.

You know they used to have a word for people that thought their wisdom should be imposed on locals in a different place: colonialists. This is downtown colonialism at its best. Streetcars work in the core. That means they must work in Scarborough!

You come in, mislead the locals, then when they realize what's going on and complain, you say they should have understood that you were misleading them from the beginning. Nice. Is that something like, "Heads, I win. Tails you lose."?

 

[kEiThZ]

No...their concerns are coming in too late! Again, where were the complaints months ago? How come these reisdents do not educate themselves more?

Because months ago there were no community consultations. In case you hadn't noticed these concerns are coming out at consultations that the TTC is hosting. Isn't that supposed to be the venue where you voice your concerns?

 

[kettal]

I disagree. There are, of course, those that are concerned about lane reductions (mostly small business owners who are worried about losing business), but there are far more people that I've come across who are surprised to find out what LRT actually is. Keep in mind that in Scarborough, when people hear RT they think SRT. That's the impression people had of LRT. Now they find out that this thing is more like a streetcar, that the median left turn lane is going to disappear and they are wondering what's next.

Hopefully they do find out what's next, and not let their imaginations run wild. Unfortunately some of the loudest opponents are also the most irrational. I remember being in a planning committee meeting and watching a woman literally break down in tears over the fright that the installation of a bus shelter near her house will bring thousands of homeless drug addicts to her front door.

I don't think it's right for people to dismiss their concerns just because they don't fit somebody's world view.

Please tell this to Mr. Haab.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

Because months ago there were no community consultations. In case you hadn't noticed these concerns are coming out at consultations that the TTC is hosting. Isn't that supposed to be the venue where you voice your concerns?

There are other ways to voice your concerns beyond TTC consultations. Problem with these public consultations is you get a bunch of weirdos who say anything they want and oppose plans for personal reasons. 'Oh I don't want the LRT because the reflection of the sun off the train would shine in my eyes while I have coffee in my den'

 

[kEiThZ]

Hopefully they do find out what's next, and not let their imaginations run wild. Unfortunately some of the loudest opponents are also the most irrational. I remember being in a planning committee meeting and watching a woman literally break down in tears over the fright that the installation of a bus shelter near her house will bring thousands of homeless drug addicts to her front door.

On the flip side you have guys like Juan here who think every complaint is unreasonable and that politicians should summarily dismiss any input from residents. Democracy is just such an inconvenience you know.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

On the flip side you have guys like Juan here who think every complaint is unreasonable and that politicians should summarily dismiss any input from residents. Democracy is just such an inconvenience you know.

On the flip side you have Keithz who like to make up nonsense! I never said all complaints are unreasonable. Some complaints are legit while others are stupid

 

[Voltz]

I disagree. There are, of course, those that are concerned about lane reductions (mostly small business owners who are worried about losing business), but there are far more people that I've come across who are surprised to find out what LRT actually is. Keep in mind that in Scarborough, when people hear RT they think SRT. That's the impression people had of LRT. Now they find out that this thing is more like a streetcar, that the median left turn lane is going to disappear and they are wondering what's next.

I don't think it's right for people to dismiss their concerns just because they don't fit somebody's world view.

Would I be wrong if I said that the only things most of those people know about TC LRT's is what you are telling them?

And I can't imagine you presenting them with a fair viewpoint.