Transit City Plan

[nfitz]

Simple. They are reading the tea leaves. Support for Transit City is eroding. And they know it. So they are looking to save a few bucks on the backs of Toronto transit patrons. What's needed are the political candidates who present strong alternatives to Transit City (as it is presently). Somebody needs to claim the money on the table and say they need it for transit. There needs to be political support to maintain the level of funding regardless of how the plans are jigged.

So they turned around their position on sex education, and gave in to the bigot lobby because of a lack of support for Transit City? Thanks for setting me straight!

 

[kEiThZ]

So they turned around their position on sex education, and gave in to the bigot lobby because of a lack of support for Transit City? Thanks for setting me straight!

What does sex education have to do with transit policy?

 

[kettal]

Fair enough. And I am disappointed Metrolinx wasn't more empowered. But what would you have the province do when they set out with a budget and the costs of these proposed lines ballooned? They haven't even put a shovel in the ground and per km costs have dobuled. Did anybody really expect the province to stand by and say or do absolutely nothing?

So when they were spending all that time writing The Big Move, they didn't think for a second "wait... what if some of these numbers aren't right"? Just another example of incompetence.

IMO, the projects should have all been taken away from TTC from the beginning. TTC has shown many times they are incapable of constructing this kind of thing on time or on budget. Giambrone was even recently talking about paying the contractors a please-don't-strike bonus...

The whole design, engineering, and construction process should have been put out to tender by Metrolinx. With contracts which punish missed deadlines and set budgets.

 

[nfitz]

What does sex education have to do with transit policy?

I commented on how the government had been so incompetent and wishy-washy of late ... and you put it all down to the Toronto election. And your right of course ... they are clearly afraid of the homophobic majority of Ford voters in Toronto!

 

[Dan416]

I find it interesting that downsized Transit City has 14 Eglinton stops underground as opposed to 13. That sounds like a win. And if they're chopping so much of it, why not just build it as a subway? (Am I actually agreeing with GraphicMatt?) And if you're going to cut back Sheppard and tunnel to Consumers, why not just make the tunnelled part subway, and do BRT the rest of the way? As for Finch, I'm disappointed about it getting cut back so drastically. I always felt Finch would make a great crosstown LRT line (i.e. Finch West and Finch East).

I still have this nagging suspicion that all this was planned to give Smitherman some kind of way to save the day and win the election. But who knows.

 

[GregWTravels]

I still have this nagging suspicion that all this was planned to give Smitherman some kind of way to save the day and win the election. But who knows.

I have a funny suspicion that could be the case as well.

 

[kEiThZ]

So when they were spending all that time writing The Big Move, they didn't think for a second "wait... what if some of these numbers aren't right"? Just another example of incompetence.

IMO, the projects should have all been taken away from TTC from the beginning. TTC has shown many times they are incapable of constructing this kind of thing on time or on budget. Giambrone was even recently talking about paying the contractors a please-don't-strike bonus...

The whole design, engineering, and construction process should have been put out to tender by Metrolinx. With contracts which punish missed deadlines and set budgets.

I got lambasted on here months ago for a similar position. I am deeply critical of Metrolinx for not reviewing Transit City more deeply either. The goal of Metrolinx was more effective regional transit and transport. I fail to see how TC (with the exception of Eglinton) contributes to that vision. They should have worked with Miller and Giambrone to come up with a plan that serviced both regional and local needs. I believe if this was done, along with Metrolinx management of the projects, we would have seen a different plan, but one with much more provincial buy-in.

 

[GraphicMatt]

I think you're giving the province too much credit, still. The nature of Transit City was irrelevant. They just saw transit as an easy place to save money.

I think they thought they could get away with it, too - that Toronto would just roll over and accept what they were being dealt. The reaction from the mayor and others in the city seems to have them rattled.

(I do feel a little bad for Katherine Wynne - I thought she was doing a great job in Education, then she got shuffled into transportation and now has to deal with this mess she didn't have a hand in creating.)

 

[Fresh Start]

I find it interesting that downsized Transit City has 14 Eglinton stops underground as opposed to 13. That sounds like a win. And if they're chopping so much of it, why not just build it as a subway? (Am I actually agreeing with GraphicMatt?) And if you're going to cut back Sheppard and tunnel to Consumers, why not just make the tunnelled part subway, and do BRT the rest of the way? As for Finch, I'm disappointed about it getting cut back so drastically. I always felt Finch would make a great crosstown LRT line (i.e. Finch West and Finch East).

I still have this nagging suspicion that all this was planned to give Smitherman some kind of way to save the day and win the election. But who knows.

The number of stops is exactly the same as before. It's the twelve in the central tunnel and the Don Mills Stn underground plus deciding to put the heavily debated on Mount Dennis Stn underground. I don't think that we can ever afford a full crosstown Finch LRT line so perhaps we should be reinvestigating the possibility of a crosstown busway through the Hydro Corridor that can switch to on-street operations wherever necessary.

I'm hoping that we can at least see through a 2-stop extension of the Sheppard Line to Victoria Park.

 

[Eug]

I think you're giving the province too much credit, still. The nature of Transit City was irrelevant. They just saw transit as an easy place to save money.

I think they thought they could get away with it, too - that Toronto would just roll over and accept what they were being dealt. The reaction from the mayor and others in the city seems to have them rattled.

Quite honestly I don't think they give a chit what Miller thinks. They do care what the Toronto electorate thinks though.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

I'll answer again in the hopes that you'll stop asking: LRT in the tunnel will provide sufficient capacity, very similar speed and stop spacing, and will allow through operation on Eglinton East and West, as opposed to forcing a bus transfer.

I've had just about enough of this strawman argument!!!!! Show me the ridership that will be taking the ECLRT right across from Eg east to Eg West/Airport, go ahead show me!!!! The majority or riders will be headed for the downtown core, period!@!@!!!!! Which means they already have to transfer from the E-W route to the N-S YUS line. So show me the riders that will benifit from a one ride trip from East to West.

Even for that small percentage that will be doing the crosstown commute we know it will be only margianally faster than the current bus operations. Drop it, just drop it.

 

[kettal]

I've had just about enough of this strawman argument!!!!! Show me the ridership that will be taking the ECLRT right across from Eg east to Eg West/Airport, go ahead show me!!!! The majority or riders will be headed for the downtown core, period!@!@!!!!! Which means they already have to transfer from the E-W route to the N-S YUS line. So show me the riders that will benifit from a one ride trip from East to West.

pretty much anybody who is west of Jane or east of Don Mills will benefit from a lack of transfer at Jane or Don Mills, if they are headed downtown.

think about it.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

pretty much anybody who is west of Jane or east of Don Mills will benefit from a lack of transfer at Jane or Don Mills, if they are headed downtown.

think about it.

DRL to Don Mills and Eg East, plus Eglinton subway (eventually) from Don Mills to the Airport would give all those rider at most a one transfer ride downtown.

 

[waterloowarrior]

Globe article on the new TC
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...sit-plans-face-signal-failure/article1559708/
with a map

 

[Fresh Start]

One's thing for certain, the length of construction time can no longer be looked at as a justification for light-rail over subway expansion. I mean, look at those completion dates. By 2022 we'll still be nowhere near the airport. Those who claim that subways will take at least a decade to finish, better be paying attention.