Transit City Plan

[car4041]

Service can only run so often through a intersection, once service frequencies drop below a certain point then half of the trains will have to be short turned at Laird even though a large number of riders will be going to Don Mills. If the line is separated through to Don Mills then presumably there will be no need to build storage and crossover tracks at Laird, this would likely save a significant amount of money and disruption as those tracks more than double the length of the underground structure required.

The seems to be a much larger about of left turning traffic at Leslie and Eglinton than at most major intersections as it is T shaped. As I recall, currently at Leslie and Eglinton there are dual left turn lanes for the south and east bound directions; and eastbound through and southbound left turning movements can be made at the same time. The planned layout for this intersection will remove one of the eastbound left turn lanes and no longer allow for southbound left turns to be made at the same time as eastbound through traffic. So the planned design would have a greater effect on traffic at this intersection than at most, so I would say it is worth the effort to change the design.

Good points...I'm convinced!

 

[rbt]

Lets assume that the same number of people are coming from Scarborough and going downtown. Either they take the B-D and transfer at Yonge - the current situation, OR, some go to Yonge and transfer there. If we want to prevent platform overcrowding, it seems better to spread these transferring passengers out between 2 stations instead of concentrating all of them at Yonge-Bloor.

There will not be the same number of people taking the Yonge line in 2020 as today.

 

[Electrify]

Those of you who keep saying Torontonians will take the GO are sadly mistaken. Montreal is using the Opus card which is like Presto for the whole region.
K
Zone 1 is for the Montreal subway and buses
Zone 2 is for Commuter trains on Montreal Island
Zone 3 and + is for outside the city.

The cost is incremental depending in which zone you live.

Before 2000, the CAM (Zone 1) included Commuter Trains near downtown and Montrealers were using it. At the minute commuter trains became zone 2, what do you think happened? Montrealers stopped using it, myself included.

Bottom line is, TTC riders will rather stay on the bus than pay the premium to get on the GO and PRESTO won't change anything.

Now that the 407 GO bus stops at Richmond Hill Centre rather than on Langstaff Rd, you would think it would be used more offen. The 407 bus gets to York University in about 10 minutes, compared to the Viva at about 40 minutes. The Viva is overcrowded, mkes a lot sharp turns, and even has a discount fare program with the Presto card yet still sees little ridership from the bus terminal. Granted university students aren't exactly the wealthiest people, but still.

I myself only take it when I am running late.

 

[car4041]

Thinking of how to sell the city on LRT -- rather than St. Clair or Spadina, I wonder if the Queensway right-of-way should be pointed to as the closest thing to the Transit City model that we currently have (in terms of operations; obviously it won't look the same). The Queensway ROW is pretty darn fast. Its average stop spacing is 430m, compared to 290m on Spadina (Bloor to Queen's Quay) or 260m on St. Clair, and it really allows the cars to get up some speed between stops. The average spacing on the Sheppard LRT (Don Mills to Morningside) will be 490m, even wider than that on the Queensway. If people want to see how a Transit City line would operate, maybe they should look at the Queensway rather than St. Clair.

 

[Electrify]

Thinking of how to sell the city on LRT -- rather than St. Clair or Spadina, I wonder if the Queensway right-of-way should be pointed to as the closest thing to the Transit City model that we currently have (in terms of operations; obviously it won't look the same). The Queensway ROW is pretty darn fast. Its average stop spacing is 430m, compared to 290m on Spadina (Bloor to Queen's Quay) or 260m on St. Clair, and it really allows the cars to get up some speed between stops. The average spacing on the Sheppard LRT (Don Mills to Morningside) will be 490m, even wider than that on the Queensway. If people want to see how a Transit City line would operate, maybe they should look at the Queensway rather than St. Clair.

Absolutely. Unfortunately, the Queensway stretch is kind of out of the way, so many people never get a chance to ride it. I'd assume most people in south Etobicoke heading downtown would travel north to the subway and back down, or take the GO train. I also can't imagine there is a lot of passenger traffic between south Etobicoke and Parkdale, which is about the only kind of trip this ride is useful for.

But yes, how it performs will be comparable to how Transit City will operate.

 

[sixrings]

I wasted time on google maps this morning counting all the houses south of eglinton on jane on the west side. I come up to aproximately 245houses 3 buildings and 2 churches.... If i just assume each of these houses are worth 500k and then add say an extra 25 million for the buildings I come up with 150 Million dollars to buy all the property. The distance is 4.3 km. So if we were to build underground at 300m a km we are in the 1.2 billion range but if we bought everything, widened the road and then made LRT we are about 375m if its 55m a km of LRT (55mx4=220m) + 150m for the houses.

My question I guess is why is this NOT being considered a option on Jane?

Also other corridors such as Keele and Dufferin have the same problem but if you do the math buying the houses and widening the roads makes more sense.

 

[sixrings]

I wasted time on google maps this morning counting all the houses south of eglinton on jane on the west side. I come up to aproximately 245houses 3 buildings and 2 churches.... If i just assume each of these houses are worth 500k and then add say an extra 25 million for the buildings I come up with 150 Million dollars to buy all the property. The distance is 4.3 km. So if we were to build underground at 300m a km we are in the 1.2 billion range but if we bought everything, widened the road and then made LRT we are about 375m if its 55m a km of LRT (55mx4=220m) + 150m for the houses.

My question I guess is why is this NOT being considered a option on Jane?

Also other corridors such as Keele and Dufferin have the same problem but if you do the math buying the houses and widening the roads makes more sense.

no thoughts????

 

[car4041]

no thoughts????

Bulldozing an entire side of the street might not be the best way to get the neighbourhood on-side with LRT...

 

[sixrings]

Bulldozing an entire side of the street might not be the best way to get the neighbourhood on-side with LRT...

Well its sad that we bulldozed streets in the past to make them wider for cars but we cant even contemplate the thought of doing the same thing for transit. I dont mean to insult any ones houses but these three streets south of eglinton and north of bloor (Jane, Keele, Dufferin) all suffer from houses that have not scene much or any improvement. Infact most of them look unloved and sometimes almost abandoned. I would think that sacrificing these tired houses to make vibrant streets and communities would be worth the price of admission.

 

[car4041]

Well its sad that we bulldozed streets in the past to make them wider for cars but we cant even contemplate the thought of doing the same thing for transit.

We bulldozed lots of houses to build transit in the past, too (e.g. much of the B-D line, which is still mostly parkettes and parking lots today), but it would never fly today. It just wouldn't. Times and attitudes have changed, and we can't really ignore that. Also, the result of your proposal would be a one-sided street with houses on one side and backyards on the other -- not exactly the recipe for a vibrant street life.

 

[sixrings]

We bulldozed lots of houses to build transit in the past, too (e.g. much of the B-D line, which is still mostly parkettes and parking lots today), but it would never fly today. It just wouldn't. Times and attitudes have changed, and we can't really ignore that. Also, the result of your proposal would be a one-sided street with houses on one side and backyards on the other -- not exactly the recipe for a vibrant street life.

not true. The natural conclusion of my suggestion would be that developers would be buying the houses on both sides of the new LRT and would be redeveloping the area therefor making a vibrant street life ( at least in comparison to what is there right now).

 

[Palma]

Its an awful idea. Why do 245 houses need to be destroyed and people loose their homes for an LRT and for people that live further north just to bring them south? The reason those homes along Jane, Keel and Dufferin look the way they do is because it is not an affluent area

 

[sixrings]

Its an awful idea. Why do 245 houses need to be destroyed and people loose their homes for an LRT and for people that live further north just to bring them south? The reason those homes along Jane, Keel and Dufferin look the way they do is because it is not an affluent area

so does that mean you are ok with the 1.2 billion dollar figure to get the lrt to bloor? Should the lrt randomly end at Eglinton? theres a 700 million dollar difference in cost and if you add every corridor such as keele dufferin pape you are simply multiplying the costs. Maybe the lines should end at Eglinton, but I always thought network connectivity and less transfers was vital to a proper transit network. I also cant see any of these areas houses ever becoming affluent if the areas are never serviced by transit. Lets face facts most people dont want their houses faces main streets. Combine that with no transit and you have a problem. Personally I like to fix problems. BTW paying the people properly for their houses isnt the same as kicking them out of their houses.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Its an awful idea. Why do 245 houses need to be destroyed and people loose their homes for an LRT and for people that live further north just to bring them south? The reason those homes along Jane, Keel and Dufferin look the way they do is because it is not an affluent area

The loss of 245 homes is a small price to pay for something that will greatly benefit 1.5 million Torontonians and many of the 5 million people living the the GTA. And the people who loose their homes will be paid to buy new ones. Metrolinx isn't just going to bulldoze 245 homes without considerations for the families.

 

[nfitz]

Those of you who keep saying Torontonians will take the GO are sadly mistaken. Montreal is using the Opus card which is like Presto for the whole region.

Zone 1 is for the Montreal subway and buses
Zone 2 is for Commuter trains on Montreal Island
Zone 3 and + is for outside the city.

This is not correct at all. Zone 1 through 3 are present all on the island, all for commuter trains. There are parts of the City of Montreal in Zones 1, 2, and 3. Montreal buses and subways are not in any of these zones.

There isn't that much cost different between a metro/bus pass ($75.50 a month) and a Zone 1 AMT pass (which covers commuter rail stations like Montreal West, Parc, etc.) at $84.50 a month. Do you really think that $9 makes that much difference? Even the Zone 2 pass which covers out to Point Claire is only $99. I think you overcase your case. I've also not seen any reports of a reduction of AMT ridership.