Transit City Plan

[Lenser]

Sarah got it right on transit.

Maybe she did, maybe she didn't... she, like Ford, has no real answer for how the subways are to be funded. The tepid, intentionally bland "private funding" answer is no answer at all. I don't see the Feds or the province leaping to tackle those massive capital projects. Without secure funding, talk of subways is just wasted breath and cynical attempts at vote-buying. Light rail with dedicated right of way is the most affordable solution we have available at this point in time.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

To her credit, she did argue for tolling the DVP and Gardiner, though her suggested rate of $5 is a non-starter, and the voters didn't like that message one bit.

AoD

 

[andrewpmk]

andrewpmk:

You are ignoring the pattern of suburban office development - they are only getting built in suburban (read 905) areas that allows for large amount of surface parking, which aren't compatiable to the development in the centres. Such a form of development also had the added disadvantage of lowering density, negating the whole point of increased access by public transit that's supposed to be the rasion d'etre.

AoD

If taxes are low and transit is decent then development in North York Centre type areas is perfectly possible. The only reason we get so much car oriented business park crap is because taxes are too high in Toronto to encourage any development outside downtown (which is expensive anyway, so landlords are more willing to pay high taxes there because it is a premium location), and transit is crap in the 905 forcing landlords to build huge parking lots. Plenty of cities outside North America e.g. Tokyo and Paris have transit oriented office buildings along rail lines in the suburbs which I would not describe as car oriented business parks. Heck NYCC had lots of office building construction in the 1980s when taxes were low but it stopped when taxes went up due to amalgamation.

If there are low taxes for new buildings and higher taxes for old buildings there is no incentive to keep those old buildings vacant. The city already charges lower rates for new high rise residential than for old high rise residential.

 

[Electrify]

To bring the attention over to moi again, I also added a stop on the Finch line at Finchdale Plaza (between Islington and Milvan). While I do hate to add another stop, keep in mind on the original plan there were to be two stops in this area!

 

[Dan416]

To her credit, she did argue for tolling the DVP and Gardiner, though her suggested rate of $5 is a non-starter, and the voters didn't like that message one bit.

AoD

Voters didn't really have a chance to get to know her. At least she had a plan.

I wish Sarah Thomson was mayor.

 

[rbt]

I wanted to go to West Mississauga from Union on a Saturday, but the station I needed wasn't served except on weekdays.

Yes. That is a reason to spend $30 million to add weekend service at 15 minute frequencies.

It is not a reason to spend $30,000 million on an entirely new corridor to have 15 minute frequencies.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

http://www.thestar.com/news/cityhal...-full-speed-ahead-regardless-of-politics?bn=1


When do the shovels go into the ground? For finch west and and the SRT.

 

[spider]

Originally Posted by spider

Sarah got it right on transit.

Maybe she did, maybe she didn't... she, like Ford, has no real answer for how the subways are to be funded. The tepid, intentionally bland "private funding" answer is no answer at all. I don't see the Feds or the province leaping to tackle those massive capital projects. Without secure funding, talk of subways is just wasted breath and cynical attempts at vote-buying. Light rail with dedicated right of way is the most affordable solution we have available at this point in time.

Well, we don't have funding for streetcars either so enjoy your bus ride.

Toronto, "The whiny little village that is afraid to grow into a city".

When we all bought our first homes we didn't have "THE FUNDING" we trusted our ability to handle a reasonable amount of debt because it enabled an improvement on living in our parents basement.

It is time for Toronto to step up to the plate all by itself, to either muster up the strength to run with the big dogs or stay on the porch.

 

[Paleo]

Well, we don't have funding for streetcars either so enjoy your bus ride.

Toronto, "The whiny little village that is afraid to grow into a city".

When we all bought our first homes we didn't have "THE FUNDING" we trusted our ability to handle a reasonable amount of debt because it enabled an improvement on living in our parents basement.

It is time for Toronto to step up to the plate all by itself, to either muster up the strength to run with the big dogs or stay on the porch.

Don't be so disingenuous. Going into debt to buy a 1,200 sqft home for a family of 4 is a little different from going out and buying a 12,000 sqft home for the same family.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Don't be so disingenuous. Going into debt to buy a 1,200 sqft home for a family of 4 is a little different from going out and buying a 12,000 sqft home for the same family.

Hes right though. Toronto wants everyone else to pay for everything. He wants subways and is willing to pay for them. I think spider should be appluded for being honest.

 

[EnviroTO]

To add to that sentiment Toronto is an economic engine as shown in rising housing prices and office growth, but for some reason we need the province (which gets taxes from us) to pay for our subway. Why should we rely on the tax payers of St.Catharines, Sault Ste Marie, and Windsor to contribute to our subway? Why can't we go it alone if we do indeed need it, and if we don't need it why should we be accepting it from the province when they are using our tax dollars as well to pay for it?

 

[Tulse]

Toronto is an economic engine as shown in rising housing prices and office growth, but for some reason we need the province (which gets taxes from us) to pay for our subway.

Only if the province wants the engine to keep turning.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

To add to that sentiment Toronto is an economic engine as shown in rising housing prices and office growth, but for some reason we need the province (which gets taxes from us) to pay for our subway. Why should we rely on the tax payers of St.Catharines, Sault Ste Marie, and Windsor to contribute to our subway? Why can't we go it alone if we do indeed need it, and if we don't need it why should we be accepting it from the province when they are using our tax dollars as well to pay for it?

More Ontario dysfunction.

 

[EnviroTO]

More Ontario dysfunction.

What do you mean? I'm not saying we stop paying provincial taxes, or separate. I'm saying that if something is really important to us then we should build it. City council is fearful of property tax increases, but when the province took over the school board they didn't have any such concerns that the poor Toronto taxpayers couldn't afford higher property taxes. If the money isn't there to build a line in 10 years then build it in 20. What is missing is a resolve to do it and a focus on real business cases where the project makes sense because rather than a drain on the city it is an investment with some non-fictitious ROI.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

If taxes are low and transit is decent then development in North York Centre type areas is perfectly possible. The only reason we get so much car oriented business park crap is because taxes are too high in Toronto to encourage any development outside downtown (which is expensive anyway, so landlords are more willing to pay high taxes there because it is a premium location), and transit is crap in the 905 forcing landlords to build huge parking lots. Plenty of cities outside North America e.g. Tokyo and Paris have transit oriented office buildings along rail lines in the suburbs which I would not describe as car oriented business parks. Heck NYCC had lots of office building construction in the 1980s when taxes were low but it stopped when taxes went up due to amalgamation.

If there are low taxes for new buildings and higher taxes for old buildings there is no incentive to keep those old buildings vacant. The city already charges lower rates for new high rise residential than for old high rise residential.

Chicken and Egg??? First it's not like there is no business development in Toronto, if taxes were too high then how/why were BAC, RBC Centre, Telus house, ICE's office component, PwC tower, etc built/planned. Toronto is still an attractive location to build an office building (note I'm sure there are a handful of similar office buildings built in NYCC and Y/E I'm simply not familiar with that part of the city. I think the equation is roughly, IF you are going to build a business centre in Toronto, THAN you are most likely going to build one in the downtown core as it is the most attractive location in the city.

Second landlords chasing cheaper taxes in the 905 region, according to you, are forced to build huge business parks with large parking because transit sucks in the 905. What comes first, the trip generators or the riders??? You can't expect a municipality to run a transit line along a currently empty (or nearly empty) road (let alone a road that may not exist yet) in hopes that it encourages developers to build transit oriented business parks. No that would be a complete waste of money. So again here we are with the chicken and the egg, developers will continue building business parks with vast parking lots because transit sucks in the 905, but 905 municipalities cannot improve transit if the ridership isn't there and that brings us back to developers building transit oriented developments.

The municipalities could require that 75% of the planned parking available at business park be underground parking so as to minimize the effect of large parking lots. However developers would squawk loudly because land is so cheap in the 905 and building underground parking is so, relatively, expensive. They could also require that the office buildings actually front onto main roads (ones that would be planned to have transit) to make it easier for transit riders to go from their stop to the office building.