Toronto's "urban myths"

[Jonny5]

I checked the 1991 census tract data for the Chinatown area and there were about 7000 Chinese and 500 Vietnamese at the time. Pretty much the same as today.

If there was ever a large concentrated Vietnamese diaspora in Toronto I would expect it to be back immediately following the Vietnam war.

 

[King of Kensington]

Vietnamese immigration to Canada peaked in the 1980s and early 1990s not the 1970s.

http://www.vsscanada.org/en/history...y/settlement_history/settlement_history_1.php

 

[junctionist]

We saw an American diaspora during the Vietnam War which included Jane Jacobs among others.

 

[The Golem]

I have heard several people over the years tell me there is a long abandoned subway line downtown, usually mentioning Queen or King Street. Not exactly sure how they got that in their head; maybe they once heard about plans or roughed in stops for a Queen streetcar subway and thought it was built but never used.

There are a couple of abandoned subway stations downtown. Lower Bay (sometimes used for movie shoots), and another at Queen.

 

[animatronic]

There are a couple of abandoned subway stations downtown. Lower Bay (sometimes used for movie shoots), and another at Queen.

Lower Bay is more accurately mothballed vs abandoned - it is maintained, the tracks are live/in use and the platform could be used if required. passenger trains are sometimes rerouted through there due to construction but the TTC opted not to stop.

Lower Queen is not an abandoned station per se. It was only ever roughed in. And since it was repurposed as the under track passageway it gets used by thousands of computers each day.

compare those to New York, London and Berlin where a number of stations and even spur lines were once in use and then truly abandoned.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Lower Bay Station is used for movie shoots, TV episodes, and commercials. The white tiles and center platform give them away.

 

[animatronic]

Lower Bay Station is used for movie shoots, TV episodes, and commercials. The white tiles and center platform give them away.

It's very similar to the Infield Terminal at YYZ - nobody considers that to be abandoned.

 

[howl]

What are some beliefs past and present commonly held by Torontonians about the city that aren't for the most part aren't true.

Here are a few I can think of:

1. Chinatown is actually Vietnamese (Census data for the area shows that there are about 10 times as many Chinese than Vietnamese in the area, whether one looks at birthplace, language or ethnic origin.)

2. York University opened partly because of anti-Semitism at U of T (I've heard this several times and incidentally always from non-Jewish Torontonians. How can this be? The heyday of Jewish quotas was a generation before York opened and it wasn't an issue by the 1960s.)

3. Toronto never followed the US model of inner city decline (Although it never declined to the extent that many northeastern and midwestern US cities did, from the 1880's to 1960's Toronto pretty much did follow the Burgress concentric rings model where those that could afford it moved further from the city center.)

4. The UN declared Toronto to be the most multicultural city in the world (It's been commonly reported by politicians, journalists and others, but there's no evidence the UN ever made such a declaration.)

Regarding 1. I've heard from Chinese relatives who were formerly shop owners in the area that prior to the 1990's Chinatown (Dundas and Spadina) was largely Cantonese and since the 1990's it has become predominately Mandarin. I think perhaps the "myth" of it being Vietnamese is a misunderstanding of the various ethnic varieties within China. Yes, the old "Chinese" left but for the most part new "Chinese" replaced them, not just Vietnamese.

Regarding 3. The "US model of inner city decline" is primarily a post WWII phenomena driven by the ubiquitousness of the automobile, which manifested itself in controlled access highways reaching into the urban core. Prior to WWII it was just streetcars and rail that supported suburban expansion, and that was a global phenomena, not just an American one. Therefore I think you're statement is wrong in that urban decline was not a "US model" from the 1880's to the 1960's, but a global model. For example, many cities like London, Paris, Rome, Berlin, Tokyo and Hong Kong all saw rapid suburban expansion driven by rail development in this period. The two models bifurcated in the 1950's, with Toronto starting off down the US path and then swinging back to the global path (actually a hyrbid between the two). That was enough to save the urban core from decline.

Regarding 4. The "Myth" is based on the United Nations' Development Program saying in 2004 that Toronto had the second-largest proportion of foreign-born residents, only behind Miami, and since Miami's population is primarily just Cuban and Latin American that makes Toronto's foreign-born population the most diverse. So the UN did say something that could be interpreted as being what politicians often quote.

 

[Johnny Au]

Lower Bay is more accurately mothballed vs abandoned - it is maintained, the tracks are live/in use and the platform could be used if required. passenger trains are sometimes rerouted through there due to construction but the TTC opted not to stop.

Lower Queen is not an abandoned station per se. It was only ever roughed in. And since it was repurposed as the under track passageway it gets used by thousands of computers each day.

compare those to New York, London and Berlin where a number of stations and even spur lines were once in use and then truly abandoned.

Bay Lower is more of a ghost station than an abandoned station, as it sees use.

It does make sense for Queen Lower to be used by thousands of computers, given its proximity to the Apple Store.

 

[cornflakes]

Wow, this is sort of depressing. It's like when you found out that Santa Claus wasn't real, the tooth fairy wasn't real, and this world isn't as nice as it was pictured to be when we were kids.

 

[King of Kensington]

Regarding 1. I've heard from Chinese relatives who were formerly shop owners in the area that prior to the 1990's Chinatown (Dundas and Spadina) was largely Cantonese and since the 1990's it has become predominately Mandarin. I think perhaps the "myth" of it being Vietnamese is a misunderstanding of the various ethnic varieties within China. Yes, the old "Chinese" left but for the most part new "Chinese" replaced them, not just Vietnamese.

Not really disagreeing here. The Chinese population has remained pretty constant over the last 20 years but since it's an immigrant reception area it's likely newer arrivals cancelling out the departure of those from earler waves.

Regarding 3. The "US model of inner city decline" is primarily a post WWII phenomena driven by the ubiquitousness of the automobile, which manifested itself in controlled access highways reaching into the urban core. Prior to WWII it was just streetcars and rail that supported suburban expansion, and that was a global phenomena, not just an American one. Therefore I think you're statement is wrong in that urban decline was not a "US model" from the 1880's to the 1960's, but a global model. For example, many cities like London, Paris, Rome, Berlin, Tokyo and Hong Kong all saw rapid suburban expansion driven by rail development in this period. The two models bifurcated in the 1950's, with Toronto starting off down the US path and then swinging back to the global path (actually a hyrbid between the two). That was enough to save the urban core from decline.

Fair enough. Of course some US cities (i.e. Manhattan, San Francisco) follow the "global model" too.

Regarding 4. The "Myth" is based on the United Nations' Development Program saying in 2004 that Toronto had the second-largest proportion of foreign-born residents, only behind Miami, and since Miami's population is primarily just Cuban and Latin American that makes Toronto's foreign-born population the most diverse. So the UN did say something that could be interpreted as being what politicians often quote.

Except this urban myth goes back to 1989. Mayors Art Eggleton, Barbara Hall and Mel Lastman all referenced this UN declaration.

http://www.yorku.ca/lfoster/2006-07...nUrbanLegend_TorontosMulticulturalLegend.html

 

[ShonTron]

Regarding 3. The "US model of inner city decline" is primarily a post WWII phenomena driven by the ubiquitousness of the automobile, which manifested itself in controlled access highways reaching into the urban core. Prior to WWII it was just streetcars and rail that supported suburban expansion, and that was a global phenomena, not just an American one. Therefore I think you're statement is wrong in that urban decline was not a "US model" from the 1880's to the 1960's, but a global model. For example, many cities like London, Paris, Rome, Berlin, Tokyo and Hong Kong all saw rapid suburban expansion driven by rail development in this period. The two models bifurcated in the 1950's, with Toronto starting off down the US path and then swinging back to the global path (actually a hyrbid between the two). That was enough to save the urban core from decline.

Toronto also kept a strong, downtown-centric transit system going strong from the 1940s through to the 1980s, the time in which many US cities saw their inner cores decline. Cities that had subway systems built before 1970 include only Toronto, Montreal, Chicago, New York, Boston, and Philadelphia. (Depending on how you look at it, Cleveland did build a "subway" in the 1950s-1960s.)

Many neighbourhoods in Philadelphia's inner city did see a decline, but the downtown core did not; the same for Chicago, Boston, even New York. Of all the cities with rapid transit systems before 1970, Cleveland was the outlier.

 

[the lemur]

Regarding 1. I've heard from Chinese relatives who were formerly shop owners in the area that prior to the 1990's Chinatown (Dundas and Spadina) was largely Cantonese and since the 1990's it has become predominately Mandarin. I think perhaps the "myth" of it being Vietnamese is a misunderstanding of the various ethnic varieties within China. Yes, the old "Chinese" left but for the most part new "Chinese" replaced them, not just Vietnamese.

Isn't it also true that much or at least some of the population seen as 'Chinese' is actually Vietnamese who are ethnically Chinese (Hoa)?

 

[the lemur]

I have heard several people over the years tell me there is a long abandoned subway line downtown, usually mentioning Queen or King Street. Not exactly sure how they got that in their head; maybe they once heard about plans or roughed in stops for a Queen streetcar subway and thought it was built but never used.

Possibly a misconception based on 'subway' in the sense of 'underpass' and this:

https://losttoronto2.wordpress.com/tag/queen-street-subwaythen-and-now/

 

[the lemur]

The idea that Avenue Road was so named because of a road builder from somewhere in the UK saying 'Let's 'ave a new road here'. Beyond stupid. There are about ten of them in London alone, and it relates to the original meaning of avenue being a tree-lined roadway.