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Toronto's Transit Network Plan

Waded through most of that. Not much is really new, still lots of work to be done, and a lot of inconsistencies to deal with. Chiefly:

1) Analysis leans heavily on 5-minute vs. 15-minute SmartTrack, while the recommendation seems to be for 10-minute service. So difficult to use this to evaluate Relief options.

2) Mass of evidence shows a Relief alignment in the vicinity of King/Wellington/Front to be best from the transportation and development angles, but the recommendation is for Queen, because of, I suppose the huge number of people who would ride their bike to City Hall, feel psychologically good, get their picture taken in front of the T O R O N T O sign, then go back down and take the subway to Leslieville.
 
^Exactly, the whining about City Planning's preference for Queen feels more like "Wah, my fantasy subway isn't coming true" than "Huh, I think King makes more sense." There's definitely virtues to the King route but you wouldn't think that the way some users talk. The lower cost and increased destinations are good points and I'd argue that Queen has more development potential right now as more parts of King have been redeveloped lately. Not that King can't see further development but Queen definitely has more opportunities for growth than King imo.
 
I don't disagree with the points about cost and proximity to other destinations, and there are some other real advantages. But at the end of the day potentially a lot fewer people would use it, up to a third less in some of the analyses.

Yes, my tone was sarcastic. The table of advantages really does lean on things like a bike garage at City Hall and proximity to the Bay bus, while ignoring the fact that a station at City Hall would be awkward for transfers to line 1 (called strong pedestrian connections - actually long pedestrian connections).

To be fair, I think the Queen recommendation came out some time before the ridership numbers did. Still, the report suggests full steam ahead, no discussion of numbers required.
 
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I've always thought Queen was the natural choice but even more so now that Smart Tracks is going a head.

With Smart Track, RER, and GO commuter, the Union/King area will already have the best transit service in the country and putting a relief line there would be just serving an area that is already going to get massive rapid transit expansion.
 
innsertnamehere said:
Hope that ones sarcasm. The primary point of the queen alignment is that it is much cheaper and has more spread out usage, a king alignment serves only commuters, while a queen alignment serves universities, malls, hospitals, etc.
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1) That's less than the extra wasted on the Sorbara line to nowhere
2) Everything on Queen closes at 5
3) Ryerson already has a subway
4) Eaton Centre already has two subways
5) Existing subway already closer to the only hospital you're talking about, which is better for old people and the near death because they won't have to walk as far or climb as many steps to get to it

It's easy to cheerlead when you're a fan but stop making excuses for Kesmat.
 
Forgotten said:
1) That's less than the extra wasted on the Sorbara line to nowhere
2) Everything on Queen closes at 5
3) Ryerson already has a subway
4) Eaton Centre already has two subways
5) Existing subway already closer to the only hospital you're talking about, which is better for old people and the near death because they won't have to walk as far or climb as many steps to get to it

It's easy to cheerlead when you're a fan but stop making excuses for Kesmat.
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What "Really" close at 5 on Queen St??

Have you every walked along Queen outside the Core??

Queen can be a straight line while others will have bend even going west at some future date that will add cost and some extra time doing it.
 
drum118 said:
What "Really" close at 5 on Queen St??

Have you every walked along Queen outside the Core??

Queen can be a straight line while others will have bend even going west at some future date that will add cost and some extra time doing it.
Click to expand...

Yes I have and there is nothing on PHASE 1 Queen east of Yonge until you get to Jilly's and that's gone now. The hipsters using the new hotel can walk 500 metres if they need to use the facilities.

Did you see King after the Jays games this year or during TIFF? Did you see all of the people going to the Distillery at night and weekends? Did you ever see the traffic around St. Lawrence on the weekends? TTC must be wasting all of OUR money by running 2x the service on King vs Queen until 2AM if Queen is so busy at night.
 
Forgotten said:
Yes I have and there is nothing on PHASE 1 Queen east of Yonge until you get to Jilly's and that's gone now. The hipsters using the new hotel can walk 500 metres if they need to use the facilities.
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The Eaton's Centre and The Bay close at 5 pm? There's numerous businesses between City Hall and Broadview open well into the evening. #Fail
 
Forgotten said:
Yes I have and there is nothing on PHASE 1 Queen east of Yonge until you get to Jilly's and that's gone now. The hipsters using the new hotel can walk 500 metres if they need to use the facilities.

Did you see King after the Jays games this year or during TIFF? Did you see all of the people going to the Distillery at night and weekends? Did you ever see the traffic around St. Lawrence on the weekends? TTC must be wasting all of OUR money by running 2x the service on King vs Queen until 2AM if Queen is so busy at night.
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King and Queen are Apples and Oranges and you can't really compare them without looking at the whole picture.

Phase 1 going King St is almost the same as Queen as you claim and it is not on a straight line until you are at Ontario St.

Yes I have been down there during the events you talk about as well other ones. I am down there more when I am photographing the areas as well the new building and I have 125,000 photos on my site that represent only a faction that I have shot since 2005 that covers King and Queen as well.

Queen hasn't change much over the decades while King has and that about to change. Queen ran MU PCC that carry 60,000 rider a day until about the late 70's when the recession took place.

King has seen development due to business/manufacturing closing or moving else where and replace by residential. Queen has seen very due to the fact it was mostly residential and commercial in the first place. King St has less traffic issues than Queen. Development is about to come to Queen since most of King is built out. If the line goes west along King, you loose a huge chunk of land on the south side because the rail corridor as well being on a curve.

King see higher ridership than Queen these days because of these new residential buildings that have higher density than Queen.

King and Bay was made by the banks that became the employment centre in the past and that is now shifting to a wider area.

You fail to answer what places closed at 5 pm as you claim and that hasn't happen since the Blue Law was scrape as well being open 7 days a week now. Sunday is a different story than the other 6 days since a lot of business don't open that day in the first place.
 
nfitz said:
The Eaton's Centre and The Bay close at 5 pm? There's numerous businesses between City Hall and Broadview open well into the evening. #Fail
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First off half the area is either residential, church, parkland, or shelters, and there's a huge empty schoolyard.

Pull up Google maps and you see the other half is dying or dead. It consists of pawn shops (oh wait they've gone out of business), small scale retailers like vape stores, convenience stores, and Dominos pizza (the barber and rug shops are out of business), or Marty Millionaire (oh wait they're out of business too, even the billion $ film industry couldn't save them).

Businesses like Vistek that cater to professionals close early. Most of the other stores turn out the lights well before dark. It's not an exaggeration to say the McDonalds at Church is probably the busiest spot east of Yonge outside of 9-5 #Fail which is a sad indictment on the planning department and Tory's office. The latter no doubt playing interference like it always does.

drum118 said:
King see higher ridership than Queen these days because of these new residential buildings that have higher density than Queen.
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So you're saying King has higher residential AND commercial density which explains why King has 2x the service at 2AM? That just reinforces the idea that this decision was political.

If you look at the score card where it says Proximity to key destinations for potential future western extension Queen scores 50% (the other street scores 100%).
 
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If they come through with the King corridor making it a transit "only/priority", then Queen makes more sense.

The financial District is very much so dead outside of office hours which is perfect for our new streetcars with adjustable service and upgraded speed to handle perfectly.
 
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