Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

The Environmental Project Report Addendum is available for public review and comment until March 14, 2022.


Open house will be held on February 17 to discuss the report.


In reading the addendum, I hadn't realized that the project went quite as far north as it does.

The northern limit is Moonlight Lane.

That was probably well known.......but I digress.

In case it was not for anyone, I had to look up exactly where that was at:

1644520888031.png


This image suggests a more southerly termination:

1644520963264.png


Hmm, detailed imaging in the report suggests that the project doesn't, in fact, go quite that far north, I gather they merely studied it.

This is the northernmost image:

1644521234706.png


But the additional track appears to stop here: (just north of German Mills Creek)

1644521277405.png
 
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Still interesting as York Region had been planning on the line dipping underground again and connecting back to Yonge for a 16th Avenue station before extending north should a further extension ever be contemplated, this appears to keep the alignment along the rail corridor well north of 16th.
 
In reading the addendum, I hadn't realized that the project went quite as far north as it does.

The northern limit is Moonlight Lane.

That was probably well known.......but I digress.

In case it was not for anyone, I had to look up exactly where that was at:

View attachment 379555

This image suggests a more southerly termination:

View attachment 379556

Hmm, detailed imaging in the report suggests that the project doesn't, in fact, go quite that far north, I gather they merely studied it.

This is northernmost image:

View attachment 379557

But the additional track appears to stop here: (just north of German Mills Creek)

View attachment 379558

This is just asking for a station at Yonge/16th-Carrville. Lots of planned density, close to DDO Park, and the rail corridor is east of the actual intersection, meaning the Viva lane would not be redundant.
 
This is just asking for a station at Yonge/16th-Carrville. Lots of planned density, close to DDO Park, and the rail corridor is east of the actual intersection, meaning the Viva lane would not be redundant.
This is exactly why there needs to be a concrete impenetrable wall placed at the end of this extension. At what point does enough become enough with extending the Yonge-Univerisity line further, and further north.
 
This is exactly why there needs to be a concrete impenetrable wall placed at the end of this extension. At what point does enough become enough with extending the Yonge-Univerisity line further, and further north.
You say that as if extending it north is necessarily a bad thing?
 
You say that as if extending it north is necessarily a bad thing?
Because at that point it becomes the jurisdiction of Metrolinx and/or York Region. Why is it up to the TTC to provide local service to those up in Richmond Hill.

The more this gets extended upwards, the more municipalities will start asking for the subway to be extended further and further up. Next thing you know, Aurora will start asking for the Yonge subway to be extended.
 
Because at that point it becomes the jurisdiction of Metrolinx and/or York Region. Why is it up to the TTC to provide local service to those up in Richmond Hill.

The more this gets extended upwards, the more municipalities will start asking for the subway to be extended further and further up. Next thing you know, Aurora will start asking for the Yonge subway to be extended.
Now if the City of Toronto annexed the City of Vaughan, the City of Richmond Hill, and the City of Markham, then I can the TTC providing local service.

Let the City of Barrie annex the Town of Aurora, the Town of East Gwillimbury, the Town of Georgina, the Township of King, the Town of Newmarket, and the Town of Whitechurch-Stoffville. Have GO Transit be able to cross the borders and frontiers.
 
First, always read the fine print :)
1644542653814.png

Secondly, there's lots of infrastructure under Steeles and it could be that crossing the municipal boundary also causes certain issues more easily avoided by keeping the whole box in Toronto. We'll see how it all plays out...
 
Because at that point it becomes the jurisdiction of Metrolinx and/or York Region. Why is it up to the TTC to provide local service to those up in Richmond Hill.

The more this gets extended upwards, the more municipalities will start asking for the subway to be extended further and further up. Next thing you know, Aurora will start asking for the Yonge subway to be extended.
We shouldn't be confining transit based off municipal borders. The whole point of Metrolinx' involvement is for long term organizations like the TTC to become obsolete and move forward to a more unified transit system where municipal borders are irrelevant.
 
We shouldn't be confining transit based off municipal borders. The whole point of Metrolinx' involvement is for long term organizations like the TTC to become obsolete and move forward to a more unified transit system where municipal borders are irrelevant.
That's cute and all, but if that's the approach we want to take than Toronto should not be on the hook whatsoever for Richmond Hill's wants. Each municipality has their own share of capital and operating expenses they have to deal with, so if we want to keep extending subways beyond Toronto's municipal borders than Metrolinx and/or the municipality requesting the extension should be paying up for all capital and operating expenses of the infrastructure.

In no way would Richmond Hill be paying for Toronto's subway system south of Steeles, so why should Toronto pay a cent for infrastructure beyond its own municipal borders? Until we fix the funding mechanisms that are currently at play, it's Toronto ultimately getting screwed in the end both from a financial and transport aspect.
 
That's cute and all, but if that's the approach we want to take than Toronto should not be on the hook whatsoever for Richmond Hill's wants. Each municipality has their own share of capital and operating expenses they have to deal with, so if we want to keep extending subways beyond Toronto's municipal borders than Metrolinx and/or the municipality requesting the extension should be paying up for all capital and operating expenses of the infrastructure.

In no way would Richmond Hill be paying for Toronto's subway system south of Steeles, so why should Toronto pay a cent for infrastructure beyond its own municipal borders? Until we fix the funding mechanisms that are currently at play, it's Toronto ultimately getting screwed in the end both from a financial and transport aspect.
Isn't the province paying for the capital expense of this infrastructure? We haven't seen how operational expenses will be handled. This is the reason that transit needs to be uploaded to a regional agency because the imaginary lines municipalities draw don't affect the travel patterns of people. Transit should be about serving the rider, not squabbling over municipal boundaries.
 
That's cute and all, but if that's the approach we want to take than Toronto should not be on the hook whatsoever for Richmond Hill's wants. Each municipality has their own share of capital and operating expenses they have to deal with, so if we want to keep extending subways beyond Toronto's municipal borders than Metrolinx and/or the municipality requesting the extension should be paying up for all capital and operating expenses of the infrastructure.
Oh, it's these old chestnuts getting dusted off?

First Toronto is paying ZERO towards the YNSE and York Region is paying a pro-rated share of the costs.
So that takes care of that.

But what are these places - Toronto, Richmond Hill etc. - in your mind, except places where people pay taxes that don't go to the other place? I know that you know people from Richmond Hill work in Toronto and people from Toronto work in Richmond Hill. They go to restaurants in both places, they drive in both places and on and on . The notion that transit systems should stop, not where riders stop, but where your taxes stop is so old, the infrastructure we're talking about might as well be horse-and-buggy.

You can say it's "cute and all" but the only thing required to shoot a big smoking hole in the logic would be for the Province to say, "all regional funding goes through us." I'm not saying they're going to say that - but you have to ask yourself what the fundamental goal of transit is for us, as riders. Personally (and I 've used this example before) I've never seen anything in my life as perverse as transit riders standing at Yonge and Steeles, watching half-full YRT buses go past them so they can wait to get on a crowded TTC bus because it's effectively illegal for YRT to pick up "TTC riders." But they're not "TTC riders." They're not "Toronto taxpayers," they're just transit users and should be treated as such.

Unquestionably the funding mechanisms need to be fixed and it's shameful that Metrolinx did two studies about fare integration and the Liberals trashed them both. But York Region is paying the capital costs in this instance so let's not use that as an excuse for disincentivizing transit use or making for a worse ridership experience. Let's not say, "Why should my taxes go to help those people," as if you don't work in the same commutershed, the same real estate market, the same economic development region. Better transit is to everyone's benefit - not just people in both municipalities but also drivers. And if drivers used this same logic they'd say, "Why should my taxes go to TTC when I never use it?"

So let's not do that. Let's just keep demanding Metrolinx be empowered to fix this because cross-municipal travel is becoming more common, not less, and it serves no one to be parochial about it.

IMHO.
 
We shouldn't be confining transit based off municipal borders. The whole point of Metrolinx' involvement is for long term organizations like the TTC to become obsolete and move forward to a more unified transit system where municipal borders are irrelevant.
I think though that eventually a line can become to long and we start hitting the law of diminishing returns. Ultimately public transit needs to compete with the car and show that it is the faster option, if it can't than potential riders will just turn to the car. Ultimately while development may come to places like Richmond Hill I doubt it will have any serious impact on the number of York Region residents taking the subway into downtown Toronto for work. The subway isn't set up for express and skip stop service so someone getting on in Aurora will have no choice but to ride the train making all stops between aurora and downtown, at that point the car becomes a far more convenient option. On top of this the Richmond Hill GO Line won't be seeing any real improvement from GO RER which gets rid of the idea of shunting downtown bound riders from York Region off of the subway. I would use the A train in New York as an example as that line is stupidly long yet you can get from Far Rockaway to Manhattan in about an hour or so since those trains run express through Brooklyn skipping most stops. If the subway was set up to have express trains, or even if the Richmond Hill line would be getting 15 minute all day service than this wouldn't be an issue. As it stands now though it is an issue that hinders us from extending the subway to far out.
 

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