Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

I didn't know it was quite as fast as 30 minutes but fair point.
Still, I think the debate here was focused on what rapid transit is needed for this corridor and every few pages someone suggests the subway isn't needed and GO should be good enough.

So, the fast point to reiterate is that the subway and GO Train serve different functions, particularly because the subway would be on Yonge and this particular GO line runs down into the Don Valley and only effectively serves as a Union express. If the whole idea is to germinate employment centres outside downtown and provide multiple transportation options, there is no subway expansion (aside from the DRL, fine) that makes more sense.

Obviously one thing the Rob Fords of the world miss is that sometimes a bus works and sometimes it's BRT and sometimes LRT etc. In this particular case, a subway is needed (and, in the long term, 2-way, all-day GO trains as well).

Agreed. I just attended a public meeting about all day 2 way service for the Stouffville line last night. It was refreshing and I'm glad to hear that the corridor isn't being forgotten while all the other lines are being built up.

I don't know if there are any internal plans at GO to even start an EA on 2 way service for the Richmond Hill line, but I'd be surprised if it was even remotely on their priority list. That line has low ridership and has a fairly solid transit line running parallel to it. And further down in the Don, I don't see any opportunity to add another track, not to mention the lack of structural integrity of the tracks right by the river which causes the trains to slow to a crawl.

Stouffville line will service The eastern portion of York, the Yonge extension will service the central bit, and Spadina will service the west. Don't count on anything being done on the Richmond Hill GO line anytime soon... Unless they're already looking at something that I'm not aware of.
 
How did that meeting go? was there anything interesting? I wanted to attend by my schedule didn't work out. maybe post a summary in the GO service thread?
 
Agreed. I just attended a public meeting about all day 2 way service for the Stouffville line last night. It was refreshing and I'm glad to hear that the corridor isn't being forgotten while all the other lines are being built up.

I don't know if there are any internal plans at GO to even start an EA on 2 way service for the Richmond Hill line, but I'd be surprised if it was even remotely on their priority list. That line has low ridership and has a fairly solid transit line running parallel to it. And further down in the Don, I don't see any opportunity to add another track, not to mention the lack of structural integrity of the tracks right by the river which causes the trains to slow to a crawl.

Stouffville line will service The eastern portion of York, the Yonge extension will service the central bit, and Spadina will service the west. Don't count on anything being done on the Richmond Hill GO line anytime soon... Unless they're already looking at something that I'm not aware of.

Their planning to start all day service on Richmond Hill, very very soon.


How was the meeting, do they plan for more stations? Will it be hourly, or half hourly?
 
Their planning to start all day service on Richmond Hill, very very soon.


How was the meeting, do they plan for more stations? Will it be hourly, or half hourly?

Yeah, xtremesniper, the all-day is in The Big Move and the Yonge/7 terminus is identified by Metrolinx as an "anchor mobility hub" so while it's not happening tomorrow, the improved service is probably not as far off as you think. I understand what you're saying about the limitations and agree but it's really a question of making a whole multi-modal station there. It's also one of the services the devlopments there are depending on to achieve modal share targets (and to unlock phasing).
http://www.metrolinx.com/mobilityhubs/en/map/mobility_hubs_map/MHP_RichmondHill-LangstaffGateway.pdf
 
Agreed. I just attended a public meeting about all day 2 way service for the Stouffville line last night. It was refreshing and I'm glad to hear that the corridor isn't being forgotten while all the other lines are being built up.

I don't know if there are any internal plans at GO to even start an EA on 2 way service for the Richmond Hill line, but I'd be surprised if it was even remotely on their priority list. That line has low ridership and has a fairly solid transit line running parallel to it. And further down in the Don, I don't see any opportunity to add another track, not to mention the lack of structural integrity of the tracks right by the river which causes the trains to slow to a crawl.

Stouffville line will service The eastern portion of York, the Yonge extension will service the central bit, and Spadina will service the west. Don't count on anything being done on the Richmond Hill GO line anytime soon... Unless they're already looking at something that I'm not aware of.

Hopefully someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the plan was to have the Richmond hill line use the Leaside rail spur then build a connecting structure to connect to the existing Don valley rail line just north of Eglinton Ave. Improving On-time performance and reducing the length of the trip with better potential for connectivity along the route. I'm not sure if I saw this from GO or from someone on these forums. I imagine in such a scenario the doubling of the track is probably more likely?
 
Their planning to start all day service on Richmond Hill, very very soon.

Uhh, no they don't. In fact, GO doesn't project it happening until 2020 or 2025. And on top of that, CN requires a grade separation at Doncaster before GO even considers it. The only way that they are going to be able to run more service on the line in the interim is when the new yard opens in a couple of months, which will eliminate a lot of the dead-heads up the line.

Hopefully someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the plan was to have the Richmond hill line use the Leaside rail spur then build a connecting structure to connect to the existing Don valley rail line just north of Eglinton Ave. Improving On-time performance and reducing the length of the trip with better potential for connectivity along the route. I'm not sure if I saw this from GO or from someone on these forums. I imagine in such a scenario the doubling of the track is probably more likely?

The idea has been bandied about for many years, but CP is completely uninterested in the proposal. GO would also have to get the City on side, as they purchased the Leaside Spur and converted it into a public trail. While publicly it may be part of the City's Official Plan, it may be difficult to build a new track through there.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
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Uhh, no they don't. In fact, GO doesn't project it happening until 2020 or 2025. And on top of that, CN requires a grade separation at Doncaster before GO even considers it. The only way that they are going to be able to run more service on the line in the interim is when the new yard opens in a couple of months, which will eliminate a lot of the dead-heads up the line.

Now we're just talking semantics. I consider a GTA transit line opening within the next 20 years to be "very soon." :cool:

Somewhat seriously, yes, it's in the 15-25-year part of the Big Move, so it's still a few years off.
 
How did that meeting go? was there anything interesting? I wanted to attend by my schedule didn't work out. maybe post a summary in the GO service thread?

Haha, honestly that thread terrifies me. It's huge and a majority of GO riders don't take the only line I care about anyway.

Their planning to start all day service on Richmond Hill, very very soon.


How was the meeting, do they plan for more stations? Will it be hourly, or half hourly?

Are they already done the EA on that or are they around the same progression as Stouffville?

As for both the above questions about how the meeting went, it was very smooth. There was a (very) brief presentation with slides, there were poster boards up for more details, and there were quite a number of GO reps and contractor reps to ask questions to.

Right after the presentation they separated everyone into roundtables based on topics like Parking / Traffic, Local Transit Integration, Noise / Vibration, etc. and rotated (though most stayed at their tables) every 20 minutes.

It was informative, though they don't seem to have too many answers to specific questions right now so I don't know what the frequency intervals will be for the line. That said, it was really nice to have GO reps around to really hound them for the horrible parking lot exit arrangement that currently plagues Unionville station.

EDIT: One additional note. I was told that the Markham meeting was very civil and generally everyone was in support of the expansion plans despite some very minor concerns. However, it was a completely different story down at Agincourt a few days before. Apparently it was rowdy, people were being extremely rude, and the majority were totally against expansion plans at all because of this so-called 416/905 divide that makes them feel like the GO line is just there to service people north of them.

In reply to that, I reminded the reps that they should really consider (and they are) local transit integration so that the line is much more useful to people who have access to the TTC as well.

Yeah, xtremesniper, the all-day is in The Big Move and the Yonge/7 terminus is identified by Metrolinx as an "anchor mobility hub" so while it's not happening tomorrow, the improved service is probably not as far off as you think. I understand what you're saying about the limitations and agree but it's really a question of making a whole multi-modal station there. It's also one of the services the devlopments there are depending on to achieve modal share targets (and to unlock phasing).
http://www.metrolinx.com/mobilityhubs/en/map/mobility_hubs_map/MHP_RichmondHill-LangstaffGateway.pdf

Now that you mention it, I think I recall seeing it in the Big Move plans. But that was years ago and I believe that after a budget shortfall they re-did a lot of their priorities and I don't recall ever seeing it mentioned again. After I stopped taking the Richmond Hill line because it's so horribly slow and inefficient, I guess I stopped paying as much attention to the line.

Back on topic though, it's rather nice to think that people will be willing to take either GO or TTC depending on where their destinations are, but unless there is amazing fare integration then it's not happening. Why? Because people like to stick to what they know, and when they do that they end up investing in it via a monthly pass.

If I have a monthly pass for the TTC because I usually go to Bloor or something, why would I change my habits and take the GO on the day that I happen to be going to Union for a hockey game? It won't happen for the majority of people.
 
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odd as all day would benefit those in Toronto the most.. The Toronto stops currently don't get any mid day service, while Markham and Stouffville get half hour bus service. (poor uxbridge gets bi-hourly)

Judging by a document I saw listing the amounts of trains they want to run, it would be hourly GO train service, as well as an increase to 10 peak trains from the current 6. (and let me tell you, its needed. the peak trains such as the 4:48, 5:20, and 6:00 departures are extremely overcrowded today)t also has 3 additional peak trains going from unionville only, meaning overall 13 departures from Unionville, Milliken, Agincourt, and Kennedy in peak hours.

I have to wonder how they will store all those extra peak trains however, as Lincolnville is currently built out and has little to no room to expand.
 
Haha, honestly that thread terrifies me. It's huge and a majority of GO riders don't take the only line I care about anyway.



Are they already done the EA on that or are they around the same progression as Stouffville?

As for both the above questions about how the meeting went, it was very smooth. There was a (very) brief presentation with slides, there were poster boards up for more details, and there were quite a number of GO reps and contractor reps to ask questions to.

Right after the presentation they separated everyone into roundtables based on topics like Parking / Traffic, Local Transit Integration, Noise / Vibration, etc. and rotated (though most stayed at their tables) every 20 minutes.

It was informative, though they don't seem to have too many answers to specific questions right now so I don't know what the frequency intervals will be for the line. That said, it was really nice to have GO reps around to really hound them for the horrible parking lot exit arrangement that currently plagues Unionville station.

EDIT: One additional note. I was told that the Markham meeting was very civil and generally everyone was in support of the expansion plans despite some very minor concerns. However, it was a completely different story down at Agincourt a few days before. Apparently it was rowdy, people were being extremely rude, and the majority were totally against expansion plans at all because of this so-called 416/905 divide that makes them feel like the GO line is just there to service people north of them.

In reply to that, I reminded the reps that they should really consider (and they are) local transit integration so that the line is much more useful to people who have access to the TTC as well.

Same progression as Stouffville, but then again it's a shorter route so there's that. Thanksfor the info, nice to hear Markham handled it smoothly. I'm not surprised about Agincourt.
 
odd as all day would benefit those in Toronto the most.. The Toronto stops currently don't get any mid day service, while Markham and Stouffville get half hour bus service. (poor uxbridge gets bi-hourly)

Judging by a document I saw listing the amounts of trains they want to run, it would be hourly GO train service, as well as an increase to 10 peak trains from the current 6. (and let me tell you, its needed. the peak trains such as the 4:48, 5:20, and 6:00 departures are extremely overcrowded today)t also has 3 additional peak trains going from unionville only, meaning overall 13 departures from Unionville, Milliken, Agincourt, and Kennedy in peak hours.

I have to wonder how they will store all those extra peak trains however, as Lincolnville is currently built out and has little to no room to expand.
Link the document please, sir. Thank You :)
 
Agreed. I just attended a public meeting about all day 2 way service for the Stouffville line last night. It was refreshing and I'm glad to hear that the corridor isn't being forgotten while all the other lines are being built up.

I also went to that meeting! Which table were you sat at? I was the only one at the Service Levels table and the reps answered all my questions there.

They aren't planning any new stations. The meeting was mostly focused simply on adding tracks and incrementally improving service using the bi-levels (most trips would end at Unionville) until frequencies reach the levels seen today on the Lakeshore lines (so approx. every 30 min).
 
why unionville? why not Mount Joy? The bus connections at Unionville suck..

the graph seemed to suggest that most trips would end at Mount Joy as well with only a few peak direction trains using Unionville.
 
I also went to that meeting! Which table were you sat at? I was the only one at the Service Levels table and the reps answered all my questions there.

They aren't planning any new stations. The meeting was mostly focused simply on adding tracks and incrementally improving service using the bi-levels (most trips would end at Unionville) until frequencies reach the levels seen today on the Lakeshore lines (so approx. every 30 min).

Where is this coming from? Every other indicator says the trips would be Mount Joy - Union.
 
I also went to that meeting! Which table were you sat at? I was the only one at the Service Levels table and the reps answered all my questions there.

They aren't planning any new stations. The meeting was mostly focused simply on adding tracks and incrementally improving service using the bi-levels (most trips would end at Unionville) until frequencies reach the levels seen today on the Lakeshore lines (so approx. every 30 min).

Nice! I was sitting at the Parking / Traffic roundtable. The reps answered a ton of my questions about parking and other issues as well.

why unionville? why not Mount Joy? The bus connections at Unionville suck..

the graph seemed to suggest that most trips would end at Mount Joy as well with only a few peak direction trains using Unionville.

Where is this coming from? Every other indicator says the trips would be Mount Joy - Union.

AFAIK, the study area for this project is from Scarborough station to Unionville station. They mentioned that service levels may indirectly increase further up the line but it would only be indirectly impacted.

I'm not sure why you'd say the bus connections at Unionville suck when far more routes pass through Unionville since it's right off the 407.
 

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