Niagara-on-the-Lake White Oaks Village | 90.6m | 25s | White Oaks Resort & Spa | Giannone Petricone

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tstormers

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New one up in Niagara-on-the-Lake, 4 Towers, 17s to 25s next to the Outlet Mall on the White Oaks Resort and Spa property.
Giannone Petricone Associates Inc. Architects.

I snipped a few images from the Architectural Drawing package below.

Link to the documents here:

253 Taylor Road - Official Plan Amendment OPA-07-2023 and Zoning By-law Amendment ZBA-16-2023 | Town of Niagara-on-the-Lake

Application Form
www.notl.com www.notl.com


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The design is quite nice, and I think it will complement the existing White Oaks Resort complex quite well.

Downside is, there's really not much in that area of town aside from the outlet mall across the street. The nearest grocery store and other neighborhood amenities are at least a 10 minute drive away. So, a bit of an awkward place for 800+ units without enough parking spaces for each one. I suspect they're counting on demand from investors who want to rent them out to Niagara College/Brock University students.
 
citylights said:
The design is quite nice, and I think it will complement the existing White Oaks Resort complex quite well.

Downside is, there's really not much in that area of town aside from the outlet mall across the street. The nearest grocery store and other neighborhood amenities are at least a 10 minute drive away. So, a bit of an awkward place for 800+ units without enough parking spaces for each one. I suspect they're counting on demand from investors who want to rent them out to Niagara College/Brock University students.
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To add some context to your legit reasons in your post that might help it make more sense. This area has a Secondary Plan from the town for intensification and build-out that has come out in parts and should have a complete plan the end of this year. A lot more development is planned for the area with the new QEW overpass upgrade complete, the college and the Outlet mall providing the base to build off of. I don't believe there will be a massive condo tower build in the area from the plans I have seen, but more midrise and retail and amenities for a town like feel away from the Old Town, where they hate new development. A project last year we had last year had a lot of the residence up in arms over a proposed 3 story condo in the old town. Even keeping part of a heritage old school and reducing the height and adding duplex homes, that looked like single family was rejected en masse.
 
tstormers said:
New one up in Niagara-on-the-Lake, 4 Towers, 17s to 25s next to the Outlet Mall on the White Oaks Resort and Spa property.
Giannone Petricone Associates Inc. Architects.

I snipped a few images from the Architectural Drawing package below.

Link to the documents here:

253 Taylor Road - Official Plan Amendment OPA-07-2023 and Zoning By-law Amendment ZBA-16-2023 | Town of Niagara-on-the-Lake

Application Form
www.notl.com www.notl.com


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Immediate thoughts:

- The Glendale to Taylor slip lane must go. Regularized intersection please.

- I don't like the 1s base sticking out, I'd prefer 2s-3s, which would help create a real or illusory main-street small town feel. 1 storey base make it feel like a strip plaza with towers grafted on top.

- This is Niagara, it's Wine Country and there is a burgeoning cycling tourism market. Cycling needs to be accommodated here either with on road cycle tracks or with a multi-use path.

- For the base only, it would be good to incorporate some use of brick as a nod to the old town; it needn't be pastiche. I'd prefer true masonry but good pre-cast, done properly, could work. It can add some nice warmth.

- The landscape plan should play on the White Oaks theme, and go oak heavy, obviously including white oak, but red and bur would be a nice mix. Contrast them by adding a few Beech and maybe a hemlock or two for winter interest at the low point on the property.

- If not the case already, I assume Niagara Region Transit will serve this area, and proper stops should be incorporated (with shelters and outdoor seating). If that doesn't make sense now, space should be allocated to it for future implementation.
 
Northern Light said:
Immediate thoughts:

- The Glendale to Taylor slip lane must go. Regularized intersection please.

- I don't like the 1s base sticking out, I'd prefer 2s-3s, which would help create a real or illusory main-street small town feel. 1 storey base make it feel like a strip plaza with towers grafted on top.

- This is Niagara, it's Wine Country and there is a burgeoning cycling tourism market. Cycling needs to be accommodated here either with on road cycle tracks or with a multi-use path.

- For the base only, it would be good to incorporate some use of brick as a nod to the old town; it needn't be pastiche. I'd prefer true masonry but good pre-cast, done properly, could work. It can add some nice warmth.

- The landscape plan should play on the White Oaks theme, and go oak heavy, obviously including white oak, but red and bur would be a nice mix. Contrast them by adding a few Beech and maybe a hemlock or two for winter interest at the low point on the property.

- If not the case already, I assume Niagara Region Transit will serve this area, and proper stops should be incorporated (with shelters and outdoor seating). If that doesn't make sense now, space should be allocated to it for future implementation.
Click to expand...
To add to your comments.

Here is the current Secondary Plan Link:


There apparently are bike lanes already on Taylor Rd. though updates will follow and I'm sure some intersection upgrades as well. Not sure about a MUP though (multi-use path).

Review is on going for a proposed transit hub across the street from the White Oaks site in the PDF.

I like your thoughts on the trees, definitely would be a good add as well as sturdy lol

Lastly, I don't believe a "main street" feel would be appropriate in this location due to the size and traffic that Glendale and Taylor Rd. have and will have, but in saying that the secondary plan is looking to have that feel brought into the Outlet mall site by adding a retail main street there. Retail on this side of the street I think will have a tough time, but was requested.
 
tstormers said:
To add to your comments.

Here is the current Secondary Plan Link:

Click to expand...

Thank you.

tstormers said:
There apparently are bike lanes already on Taylor Rd. though updates will follow and I'm sure some intersection upgrades as well. Not sure about a MUP though (multi-use path).
Click to expand...

MUP I offered as an alternative to Cycle Tracks. Since there are on bike lanes on Taylor, how about we just upgrade them to cycle tracks? That could be a 'Community Benefit'; the development implication is simply ensuring there is sufficient ROW.

I just glanced at the Taylor ROW. The interior lane is 3.3M wide, it can be restriped to 3.0M which would come very close to enough room for a Cycle Track, you might need to concede 0.2M off the applicant site. Depends on if there's any room to squeeze the left-turn lanes.

Glendale would benefit from cycling facilities as well, but man is that interchange w/the QEW an unholy mess.

It wouldn't be reasonable to pin fixing that on this applicant.

However, I think a preliminary look at the foot print of a better interchange design might be wise to ensure it works w/the proposal.

For clarity, I want those on/off ramps to meet each other at a traffic light; i actually think the implication might be a small net add-on to the applicant''s land, but its difficult to say, turning that ramp has radii implications.

tstormers said:
Review is on going for a proposed transit hub across the street from the White Oaks site in the PDF.
Click to expand...

Excellent

tstormers said:
I like your thoughts on the trees, definitely would be a good add as well as sturdy lol
Click to expand...

The would, and Swamp White Oak will put with a lot of BS if you give it good planting conditions. The other oaks aren't bad at that either, though maybe a bit more salt sensitive.

tstormers said:
Lastly, I don't believe a "main street" feel would be appropriate in this location due to the size and traffic that Glendale and Taylor Rd. have and will have, but in saying that the secondary plan is looking to have that feel brought into the Outlet mall site by adding a retail main street there. Retail on this side of the street I think will have a tough time, but was requested.
Click to expand...

I don't entirely disagree which is I offered 'real' OR 'illusory' . In other words, the visual impression of a retail main street, even if that's not what it really is (could be residential amenity)

But if you want to 'evoke' Niagara on the Lake in your marketing, I want to see visual cues that its Niagara on the Lake. You have landscape clues, as discussed above, oaks are a better idea than planting grape, you'll never find the buildings again if you do that. LOL

The architecture though can evoke that flavour; to me , you have a couple of ways to do that, one is vibing the old town (but with a fresh take); another could be full-on resort (think Blue Mountain aesthetic), some mass timber on the exterior, structural or decorative.
 
christiesplits said:
Only if next to a cornfield. Good luck getting something half that size built in downtown NOTL.
Click to expand...

I freely admit to a strong sympathy for keeping DT NOTL roughly the way it is; i don't mean stagnant, or that it couldn't get a gentle density bump, but I don't think I would want to see even midrise towers overpowering that space.

Plenty of room in St. Kitts, up near Brock and over in Niagara Falls for intensification, and hell lets throw in Welland while we're at it!
 
Old Town Niagara-on-the-Lake is a rare town for Ontario in that the vernacular is primarily Georgian, pre-dating the Victorian vernacular that is the primary heritage stock in most of the province. Brick therefore is not really the cladding material to evoke NOTL, which is more commonly wood siding, or in landmark structures, stone. I'd be hard pressed to think of how this could be evoked in this scale of development without looking like pastiche.

Perhaps a modernism that is clean straight lines would make it fit the aesthetic of some of the modernist wineries, ex: Southbrook or Stratus. A focus on the horizontal lines rather than the vertical seems to be a hallmark of such buildings in the area.
 
Northern Light said:
I freely admit to a strong sympathy for keeping DT NOTL roughly the way it is; i don't mean stagnant, or that it couldn't get a gentle density bump, but I don't think I would want to see even midrise towers overpowering that space.

Plenty of room in St. Kitts, up near Brock and over in Niagara Falls for intensification, and hell lets throw in Welland while we're at it!
Click to expand...

I agree! NOTL was a poor example. and it's definitely a big tourist destination worth preserving. I was thinking more Golden Horseshoe. It boggles my mind when I drive the 407 in North Oakville and North Burlington and see condos being built next to farmland, while huge swathes of both cities in their developed cores can't even get modest mid-rises.
 
A Torontonian Now said:
Old Town Niagara-on-the-Lake is a rare town for Ontario in that the vernacular is primarily Georgian, pre-dating the Victorian vernacular that is the primary heritage stock in most of the province. Brick therefore is not really the cladding material to evoke NOTL, which is more commonly wood siding, or in landmark structures, stone. I'd be hard pressed to think of how this could be evoked in this scale of development without looking like pastiche.

Perhaps a modernism that is clean straight lines would make it fit the aesthetic of some of the modernist wineries, ex: Southbrook or Stratus. A focus on the horizontal lines rather than the vertical seems to be a hallmark of such buildings in the area.
Click to expand...

Your dating of the original architectural style is, of course, correct.

Though I would say there are probably as many or more brick buildings in DT NOTL; and some are among the most iconic:

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Now, obviously a dead-on replication of this would look absurd at the applicant's site.

But if the podium simply lifted aspects of the vernacular, the base brick colour, the yellow brick detailing, but with a bit less flourish, no balcony, and a more modern podium style, I think it could work........but maybe I'm out to lunch on that.
 
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tstormers said:
To add some context to your legit reasons in your post that might help it make more sense. This area has a Secondary Plan from the town for intensification and build-out that has come out in parts and should have a complete plan the end of this year. A lot more development is planned for the area with the new QEW overpass upgrade complete, the college and the Outlet mall providing the base to build off of. I don't believe there will be a massive condo tower build in the area from the plans I have seen, but more midrise and retail and amenities for a town like feel away from the Old Town, where they hate new development. A project last year we had last year had a lot of the residence up in arms over a proposed 3 story condo in the old town. Even keeping part of a heritage old school and reducing the height and adding duplex homes, that looked like single family was rejected en masse.
Click to expand...
This is really good context. I had no idea there were plans for additional development in the area. It makes sense though, as there's a lot of underutilized land in this part of town.
 
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