prettyflamingo
New Member
Jennifer Caldwell = obvious plant.
Toronto Wellesley on the Park | 194.15m | 60s | Lanterra | KPMB
- Thread starter Mike in TO
- Start date
Jennifer Caldwell = obvious plant.
Conrad Black
Senior Member
^ What do you mean?
someMidTowner
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Different opinion than you, so naturally it came from someone planted by developers.
I see..
saynotofaux
Active Member
If I lived in the community I would agree with this Jennifer Caldwell, 'plant' or not.
This whole dispute is comical. Best case scenario for the community is that the future developer feels incumbent to provide a tiny sliver of greenspace/park space. To actually believe there is even the remotest chance of the province transferring the land to the city at a bargain price (I'm pretty sure the requisite $65M pricetag can't exactly be funded through s. 37 funds) is delusional.
greenleaf
Senior Member
This is already publicly owned land. The people living here are Ontario residents. "Taxpayers" shouldn't have to pay for it twice, but that's how it is.
Also, look at the planning going into Regent Park. The city realized that the neighbourhood needed an arts space, an indoor pool, and a green recreation space to serve the residents of the neighbourhood to invest in and create a long-term functional, healthy community.
I bet this neighbourhood around Wellesley/Yonge has twice as many residents as Regent Park. And what does it have? No community space. No recreation space. Not even a library remotely close. This neighbourhood is deeply underserved for the amount of people that live there. Using this land for public use green recreation space must happen.
CanadianNational
Senior Member
If a developer wanted to make money off the site, there's plenty of room for an enormous underground parking garage. The park and facilities could sit on top and the place could still generate an income.
saynotofaux
Active Member
I would assume that whoever ends up developing the site will want a larger profit than can be generated by the operation of a parking garage, however substantial that garage may be.
I just hope that one of our lesser developers doesn't get their grubby paws on the land and build a 2000-unit multi-tower monstrosity, but with the way things are going in this city, and the development precedents set on all four sides of this site, I wouldn't be surprised.
Mike in TO
Senior Member
The province is going to move ahead with the land sale. The city is free to make a bid to compete for the site - there have been significant sums of money collected from cash-in-lieu of parkland fees from development (sec 42) in Ward 27 that could be allocated towards purchasing the site should the city choose to do so (that is the purpose for which that money is collected from residential development). Furthermore, there are partnership opportunities with the private sector or other agencies in the city (i.e. Toronto Parking Authority). Infrastructure Ontario has been given a very clear mandate to monetize surplus assets and they aren't just going to transfer their high value properties to any municipality that requests the asset (as far as I know the City of Toronto hasn't actually made a formal request - just the local councilor who doesn't actually have the official authority to do so – this appears to be more of a political play than a realistic plan to acquire the site).
I live in the immediate area and would certainly like to see addition parkland, but the idea that the province which is in a deep financial hole is just going to give the land to the city when they have already made very significant investments towards new parks on provincially owned lands in the nearby West Don Lands is a bit naive - the land sale is going to net more than the $65m that was suggested earlier in this thread.
I live in the immediate area and would certainly like to see addition parkland, but the idea that the province which is in a deep financial hole is just going to give the land to the city when they have already made very significant investments towards new parks on provincially owned lands in the nearby West Don Lands is a bit naive - the land sale is going to net more than the $65m that was suggested earlier in this thread.
Xray_Crystal_Junkie
Senior Member
Ontario ≠ Toronto. I realize this is a difficult concept for some Torontonians to grasp. There are others outside of our city that are equal shareholders of the land.
I'm quite certain that the Reference Library at Yonge and Bloor is the largest in the city. Also the libraries at UofT are mostly open to the public for you to be able to use their space (even if you can't sign out the material). Then there is The 519 Church Street Community Centre at Church and Wellesley.
I'm starting to think you don't even live in the area that you're passionately arguing needs this park space.
greenleaf
Senior Member
I was using rhetoric to make a point. Your condescension is unnecessary.
The reference library belongs to the entire city, as far as I'm concerned. Libraries at the U of T aren't too keen on children. The closest libraries form a diamond with a giant hole in downtown centered around Yonge & Carlton (Yorkville in the north, St. Jameston at Sherbourne & Wellesley, City Hall library to the south, and Lillian Smith at College & Spadina. Sure, one could say "Oh look, they have choices in four different neighbourhoods" but that's exactly the point: they are all in completely different neighbourhoods. Those areas have these social amenities.
It's fine if you disagree, but I am presenting evidence that, as far as I can tell, no one has disputed in this entire thread. I think my neighbourhood is getting the short end of the stick is all and I am "sticking up" for it.
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Xray_Crystal_Junkie
Senior Member
Framing it in a way that it's already ours and we'd be some how getting swindled into paying for it twice doesn't quite seem right to me is all.
Huh? Every library in every neighbourhood belongs to the entire city. I'm not bound to only visit my nearest library. So I'm not quite sure what you mean that the Reference Library belongs to the entire city? I think most residents would consider a library a block and a half away fairly close.
I think maybe I don't see the boarders of a neighbourhood as distinctly defined as you do. There are plenty of resources and facilities just outside the traditional boundaries of the neighbourhood in which I live but I still consider those accessible and don't think they need duplicating just for the sake of saying for instance that the Annex must have a pool or skating rink (Christie Pits is just outside of the Annex apparently).
Huh? Every library in every neighbourhood belongs to the entire city. I'm not bound to only visit my nearest library. So I'm not quite sure what you mean that the Reference Library belongs to the entire city? I think most residents would consider a library a block and a half away fairly close.
I think maybe I don't see the boarders of a neighbourhood as distinctly defined as you do. There are plenty of resources and facilities just outside the traditional boundaries of the neighbourhood in which I live but I still consider those accessible and don't think they need duplicating just for the sake of saying for instance that the Annex must have a pool or skating rink (Christie Pits is just outside of the Annex apparently).
greenleaf
Senior Member
Well, we will have to agree to disagree on some things.
While I did use actual distance in the library example, the point of my comments have been made with density as a frame of reference. I don't have time to find an exact number for comparison, but I would venture that this neighbourhood is much more dense than most neighbourhoods in the province and proportionally has fewer social amenities. Apologies if I am beating a dead horse here, but the point on green space has been made: residents here have less than 1 square meter of green space per person when the Toronto average is over 12 meters per person. I don't know what the provincial city average is.
dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
If this is a lost issue perhaps Wong-Tam should re-direct focus to the smaller property east of Yonge across from the subway entrance, currently a parking lot and presumably owned by the City like the properties north of there which were converted to great park spaces about 15 years ago.
greenleaf
Senior Member
urbandreamer
recession proof
Show me where in the Canadian Constitution it says you're entitled to x amount of greenspace. Have you heard about the Yorkville library? Or the extensive greenspace between the Mac & Whitney blocks just on the other side of Bay Street? Or maybe y'all too lazy to cross Bay? Try the other side of Yonge St...green space everywhere!