MetroMan
Senior Member
GO shouldn't own it, the province should buy it from the city for the GTTA.
Toronto Union Station Revitalization | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | NORR
RedRocket191
Senior Member
Who will eventually run GO transit.
khris
Senior Member
Hmmm I don't see this being a bad thing. Maybe GO has other ideas for it if they owned it.
wyliepoon
Senior Member
If GO can make Union Station into something like their Hamilton GO Centre (TH&BR station)- a station that looks spanking new, yet has decor that faithfully respects the era in which the station was built, then I say GO should get Union Station.
rbt
Senior Member
GO has worse funding and less borrowing power than the city.
Second, the station is in use by more than just GO Transit including the likely addition of a new regional bus station for private carriers.
It took the city a decade to get out of the deal that Lastman tried to shove Union Station into. Lets give them a couple of years to start the process before selling it off.
Second, the station is in use by more than just GO Transit including the likely addition of a new regional bus station for private carriers.
It took the city a decade to get out of the deal that Lastman tried to shove Union Station into. Lets give them a couple of years to start the process before selling it off.
Not a good idea to sell to GO.
It needs to be both. There's no reason that this building cannot house a respectfully renovated transportation terminal and also function as integral retail node along the PATH system. To make PATH work south of Union, it needs to work under the tracks too.
Joe Mihevc is right in terms of having a third party manage the complex. It is better to have the TTC, GO, VIA, Greyhound all pushing one manager for their share of the pie than to have one of the four control it, as it will force each of the transportation agencies to maximize efficiencies within a tight area. Whether the city would be the best manager or not is arguable, (I am inclined to believe that the City could do it well - this project will have enormous scrutiny, so they'll be loathe to blow it again), but as the multi-modal gateway to Toronto, the City unarguably has the most invested interest in making this work. It's time to get the process in gear again.
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It needs to be both. There's no reason that this building cannot house a respectfully renovated transportation terminal and also function as integral retail node along the PATH system. To make PATH work south of Union, it needs to work under the tracks too.
Joe Mihevc is right in terms of having a third party manage the complex. It is better to have the TTC, GO, VIA, Greyhound all pushing one manager for their share of the pie than to have one of the four control it, as it will force each of the transportation agencies to maximize efficiencies within a tight area. Whether the city would be the best manager or not is arguable, (I am inclined to believe that the City could do it well - this project will have enormous scrutiny, so they'll be loathe to blow it again), but as the multi-modal gateway to Toronto, the City unarguably has the most invested interest in making this work. It's time to get the process in gear again.
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spaced
Active Member
Ya, I don't really know why The Post would push for Go to own the property--to them isn't Go just another tax-eating agency? If they sell it and the city and Go flip financial situations it would seem like the city should own it.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
To them, it's probably better than having the "socialist city council" in on it. That said, like GO should be talking - where were they and their concern for the station when the original RFP for the station got wind in the dying days of the Lastman regime?
AoD
p5connex
Active Member
^^Good point- GO really is trying to pull a quick one, by making it seem as though they were interested players all along, but I don't recall any action back in the days of those now infamous proposals/scandals.
I am not convinced that anything will really happen to Union, at least not in the next 5 or so years. I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that with the city facing considerable debt and budget crisis (crisees?, crisisses? shit?) in the coming years, we can expect little movement. I hope to be proven wrong, especially because this is a brilliant building and has so much potential.
Is it time to call in Norman Foster? I think he just completed rehabilitating the Dresden Hauptbahnhof- take a look:
http://www.fosterandpartners.com/Projects/0916/default.aspx
p5
I am not convinced that anything will really happen to Union, at least not in the next 5 or so years. I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that with the city facing considerable debt and budget crisis (crisees?, crisisses? shit?) in the coming years, we can expect little movement. I hope to be proven wrong, especially because this is a brilliant building and has so much potential.
Is it time to call in Norman Foster? I think he just completed rehabilitating the Dresden Hauptbahnhof- take a look:
http://www.fosterandpartners.com/Projects/0916/default.aspx
p5
FutureMayor
Active Member
Hand over control to the GTTA
Union Station should be handed over to the new Greater Toronto Transit Authority for $1 TODAY. You can't get a better 3rd party player than that.
I also think its pretty obvious that the majority of users of the station are 905 commuters. Which is one major reason why I believe the 416 politicans have let renovations of the station sit on the back burners for 8 years. Barely nobody they represent in their wards is complaining about the sorry state of the station because they don't use it.
I'm personally sick and tired of reading reports, attending public meetings and looking at pretty renderings while myself and hundreds of thousands of daily commuters continue to use what is probably the ugliest major train station in all of North America. The station can't wait another 5 years for Toronto to pay attention to it.
Its time for solutions and not excuses from the city of Toronto. Hand over ownership to the GTTA and let the work begin.
Louroz
Union Station should be handed over to the new Greater Toronto Transit Authority for $1 TODAY. You can't get a better 3rd party player than that.
I also think its pretty obvious that the majority of users of the station are 905 commuters. Which is one major reason why I believe the 416 politicans have let renovations of the station sit on the back burners for 8 years. Barely nobody they represent in their wards is complaining about the sorry state of the station because they don't use it.
I'm personally sick and tired of reading reports, attending public meetings and looking at pretty renderings while myself and hundreds of thousands of daily commuters continue to use what is probably the ugliest major train station in all of North America. The station can't wait another 5 years for Toronto to pay attention to it.
Its time for solutions and not excuses from the city of Toronto. Hand over ownership to the GTTA and let the work begin.
Louroz
allabootmatt
Senior Member
You can't possibly be serious.
FutureMayor
Active Member
Union Station Tour
Yes I am serious.
Have you seen the sorry state of Union Station? If not, go take a subway ride down to have a good look at it today.
I would begin your tour in the plaza in front of the grand entrance hall. You probably will have a hard time appreciating the potential beauty of the station because it has construction hoarding across almost the entire front that will remain in place until god knows when. Breathe in the air and you will inhale the nastiest smelling hotdog vendors that line the broken sidewalks, along with at least 100 idelling taxi cabs along Front Street. All this visual and sensory overload makes for a first great impression into the city of Toronto! For those lucky enough to arrive at night, they will be greeted by a chain of broken christmas lights covering the eastern entrance to the office block, along with the homeless people who beg for money on the steps.
Walk a little further south and look up and to left of the Bay Street entrance and tell me what you read spray painted on to the wall? That's been up there for a good 3 years.
Now walk INTO the lower GO concourse, which I'm willing to bet you have never seen or used in your life. I use it almost everyday, twice a day along with hundreds of thousands of others. I also recommend checking out the washroom beside cinnabon. Now walk north towards McDonald's and west walking past the LCBO and a chain of ugly shops into the lower VIA arrivals concourse. Take a look around you and try to appreciate the old tv monitors hanging from the ceiling. Now make your way up the broken cracked marble staircases into the main entrance hall. I'm the the first to admit that the potential for beauty is certainly there, however sadly its just plain ugly and embrassing today.
Louroz
Yes I am serious.
Have you seen the sorry state of Union Station? If not, go take a subway ride down to have a good look at it today.
I would begin your tour in the plaza in front of the grand entrance hall. You probably will have a hard time appreciating the potential beauty of the station because it has construction hoarding across almost the entire front that will remain in place until god knows when. Breathe in the air and you will inhale the nastiest smelling hotdog vendors that line the broken sidewalks, along with at least 100 idelling taxi cabs along Front Street. All this visual and sensory overload makes for a first great impression into the city of Toronto! For those lucky enough to arrive at night, they will be greeted by a chain of broken christmas lights covering the eastern entrance to the office block, along with the homeless people who beg for money on the steps.
Walk a little further south and look up and to left of the Bay Street entrance and tell me what you read spray painted on to the wall? That's been up there for a good 3 years.
Now walk INTO the lower GO concourse, which I'm willing to bet you have never seen or used in your life. I use it almost everyday, twice a day along with hundreds of thousands of others. I also recommend checking out the washroom beside cinnabon. Now walk north towards McDonald's and west walking past the LCBO and a chain of ugly shops into the lower VIA arrivals concourse. Take a look around you and try to appreciate the old tv monitors hanging from the ceiling. Now make your way up the broken cracked marble staircases into the main entrance hall. I'm the the first to admit that the potential for beauty is certainly there, however sadly its just plain ugly and embrassing today.
Louroz
allabootmatt
Senior Member
While I agree Union is somewhat rundown, it's in no worse condition--and indeed, probably better--than a number of the biggest US rail hubs. Not to mention that its historic spaces blow those of several of them out of the water. People forget that, Grand Central aside (which btw is not an intercity station) the big US stations are awful!
South Station in Boston is an 80s nightmare, only saved by being quite small and thus pretty manageable.
Penn Station is much, much worse, and would be so lucky as to have Toronto's GO concourse, let alone the Great Hall. It's massively overcrowded, almost entirely underground with incredibly low ceilings, has awful shops, and is generally falling apart. It's an embarassment both to New York and to Amtrak, which is probably why Moynihan Station is going ahead.
And then there's Union, in Washington, probably the most overrated train station there is. No question, the entrance hall is beautiful, and there are some lovely shops. However any misconception that it is not a mall first and a rail hub second (or fifth) is corrected when you actually go to board the trains, which are tucked behind the fancy shops in a dirty, poorly maintained, straight-outta-1981 set of 'gates,' complete with Sbarro and McDonald's, which then lead to an outdoor boarding area that makes Union's shed look like St. Pancras.
And in Canada? How about Ottawa? Or Montreal? Centrale may have some nice stores, but it's still just a big, square undrground room.
Union needs work, but let's keep it in perspective.
South Station in Boston is an 80s nightmare, only saved by being quite small and thus pretty manageable.
Penn Station is much, much worse, and would be so lucky as to have Toronto's GO concourse, let alone the Great Hall. It's massively overcrowded, almost entirely underground with incredibly low ceilings, has awful shops, and is generally falling apart. It's an embarassment both to New York and to Amtrak, which is probably why Moynihan Station is going ahead.
And then there's Union, in Washington, probably the most overrated train station there is. No question, the entrance hall is beautiful, and there are some lovely shops. However any misconception that it is not a mall first and a rail hub second (or fifth) is corrected when you actually go to board the trains, which are tucked behind the fancy shops in a dirty, poorly maintained, straight-outta-1981 set of 'gates,' complete with Sbarro and McDonald's, which then lead to an outdoor boarding area that makes Union's shed look like St. Pancras.
And in Canada? How about Ottawa? Or Montreal? Centrale may have some nice stores, but it's still just a big, square undrground room.
Union needs work, but let's keep it in perspective.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Huh? The city almost renovated the station on the basis of a misguided scheme - misguided yes, but it was hardly on the "back burners" of anything.
Beyond that, what makes you think GTTA will make renovations happen with the snap of a finger, considering it doesn't even have the budget for any projects to start off with. That organization will still have to go through the planning process inherit of these large projects.
AoD
grey
Senior Member
GO was Mike Harris' privatization/get-suburban-votes-by-jamming-up-any-city-region-building-effort-by-coddling-suburban-mayors bitch back then.
I don't think The Post is pushing anything. Just filling space. That article was suspiciously unedited from the newswire story.
Re: city coucil.. It's a big thing for the city. TTC, VIA, etc. It's a point of prestige.
Suburban councillors and TTC union jammed up everything that was sensible with the lease thing they considered and dropped a few years ago. Very shitty lease that did nothing for the public interest issues aside.
Well actually, to be fair, everyone was being a moron at the negotiating table. Contrast that to the very rigourous ppp redevelopment of the Centraal Station in Amsterdam, and St Pancras station in London.
Sooo many good examples. Toronto can't see the forest for the trees.