Toronto Union Station Revitalization | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | NORR

mdrejhon said:
Fortunately not all Metrolinx UIs are a fail. The new machines like the Metrolinx Presto add-value machines, have instant-responding touchscreens. Compared to the older GO ticket vending machines, the Presto AVM machines touchscreen UI is relatively good except for the low height (hard to reach down to the Interac pad/screen). My main nitpick is ergonomic with the Presto AVM machines, but I'm happy enough with their UI. The "insert Presto card" animation should probably be improved with a huge on-screen arrow pointing to the edge of the screen (where the Presto reader is) but other than that, the UI seemed well-designed in comparison.
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One major difference is that they come from two different manufacturers. The ticket machines are made by Parkeon, while the PRESTO equipment is all Scheidt & Bachmann.
 
Just spent a couple hours exploring Union station, including TTC, up express, presto, new streetcars and path expansion. Details aside, I find the whole thing quite inspiring. It's cool that it all comes together in this one spot.

Frankly the Union station renovation crept up on me a bit, I didn't have any idea of the scale until they got to this point.

It's a reminder of what can be done in this city when people put their minds to it. And makes me excited to see the crosstown in 2021. Thank God we had leaders 10-15 years ago with the balls to take projects of this scale on.

I am less enthusiastic about the transit situation post 2021 -will there actually be anything in the pipeline? DRL?
 
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I can't imagine we could let the Relief Die now. Hopefully the first shovels will be in the ground for it by then. Finch West LRT could be operating. Queens Quay East LRT should be under construction. GO RER will be well on the way. By then, SmartTrack will be bike racks mounted on the front of GO engines.

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Thanks Alvin - that's very interesting. Wish they were more forthcoming in that section about whether they felt the planned changes could be accommodated through the lower-cost options or whether satellite stations would be needed. It's certainly clear they think elevated or tunnelled platforms are unfeasible "has some very significant engineering challenges to overcome that may make it cost prohibitive in terms of the benefits it gains."
 
David Brake said:
Thanks Alvin - that's very interesting. Wish they were more forthcoming in that section about whether they felt the planned changes could be accommodated through the lower-cost options or whether satellite stations would be needed. It's certainly clear they think elevated or tunnelled platforms are unfeasible "has some very significant engineering challenges to overcome that may make it cost prohibitive in terms of the benefits it gains."
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Forthcoming and said org doesn't necessarily mix. I wish they can just admit to the current mess, pull the bandage out quick and stop the Union Station redo from turning into a two decadal project.

AoD
 
Looking at it i'm thinking they are leaning towards double berthing and the new south platform (28/29). Those projects could be accomodated without touching the current construction scope, they would be building new concourses and access areas from Yonge and Lower Simcoe, outside of the current Union Station area.
 
With 10 tracks from the west they have enough to dedicate 2 to Lakeshore, 2 to Milton, 2 to UP Express, 2 to Kitchener, and 2 to Barrie. Prior to train control the TTC is able to get a train on the tracks with 2.5 minute headway. This tells me that service every 15 minutes on these lines should be achievable if the track layout and platform choices eliminated conflicts to a dedicated platform. However, less than 10 minute headway is problematic because the dwell will be longer for trains where everyone is getting off and on at a central station, and there are VIA and express Lakeshore trains to fit in. The biggest issue is that the placement of the fly-under west of Union Station and the placement of the UP Express terminal were not made with a focus on how to achieve high frequency on all lines. The fly-under doesn't have enough untouched tracks north of the structure to make any sense when you consider 8 tracks coming in from Milton, Kitchener, the Airport, and Barrie, and 5 from Lakeshore West. The layout with the least conflict would have from north to south Richmond Hill, Barrie, Kitchener - Stouffville, UP Express, Milton, and Lakeshore East and West. With the fly-under where it is and the UP express platform where it is, there can't help but be conflicts between UP Express and both Kitchener and Barrie.
 
OK collective brains trust - could 10 minute SmartTrack-y service be doable through Union without needing a second station or elevated or tunnelled platforms? Any idea what additional costs might be involved?
 
New wayfinding was installed this morning on the promenade level right outside the leather shop bypass. I will try ad grab some pictures on next visit. Looks like a big improvement over the old stuff. Less logos, cleaner typeface, and finally FINALLY somebody decided to put an airplane symbol beside the UP logo.

Also, spoke with a very kind engineer (name Richard if I got that correctly) on my way through today. He confirmed that shotcreteing is almost complete on the retaining wall under the leather shop bypass and the columns in this area (steel square, x3) have been cut.
 
"Uncle Tetsu" has finally put up their own "Coming Soon" signage... lol. Check it out.

(Considering what a success their other location is, I would have thought they'd have the means to put a little more effort in)
 
Hi David,

Honestly, I don't see how Union can accommodate both RER and SmartTrack at 10 minute-frequencies without (more) major surgery. There is an upper limit of trains you can shove in there, and RER is going to push the limits as it is, never mind adding in SmartTrack trains at whatever frequency.

Union station is fundamentally a retrofitted early-20th century mainline railway terminus, and isn't designed to handle the amount of passengers envisioned, no matter how fancy the technical solutions proposed are. A Union West station (or something like it) is going to be needed, complete with a connection to the subway netwrk, possibly via an extension of the DRL. Every other city of comparable size has numerous hubs where the traffic is dispersed, and even that isn't enough sometimes (London Waterloo station at rush hour makes Union station look tame and sedate by comparison: look at the crowds when something goes wrong on ONE part of the network).

A second station should be a given, but the penny-pinching nature of Toronto/Ontario/Canadian politics mean that no level has the brass to take on a megaproject like that. Ridership levels are growing, and will grow even more with RER and SmartTrack. Sooner or later, someone's hand is going to forced (almost certainly the province). Better to get out ahead of the demand and build now, rather than having to conjure a jerry-built solution out of a hat in 10 years' time. The bill won't be pretty, but the chaos and disruption without such a station will be much, much worse.
 
edmundoconnor said:
Hi David,

Honestly, I don't see how Union can accommodate both RER and SmartTrack at 10 minute-frequencies without (more) major surgery. There is an upper limit of trains you can shove in there, and RER is going to push the limits as it is, never mind adding in SmartTrack trains at whatever frequency.
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SmartTrack is just a label on enhanced RER service.

The same EMU trains as "SmartTrack" are also going to Stoufville. During 15 minute service they would short turn 3 out of 4 at Unionville. (1 hourly to Stoufville). It does not appear to be two distinct trains. The train is identical, just with service enhanced by a Toronto/Federal pitch-in. Infills, higher frequency, better EMU fleet, etc, the SmartTrack elements added to RER.

That's what I see in that new RER report.

Aren't you aware of the planned USRC resignalling? That hasn't happened yet.

They have a plan to migrate from about 28 trains to approx 50 trains in the peak period, and a USRC resignalling initiative that will improve approach speeds to 30mph from the west and to 45mph from the east. Remember, many inefficiencies still exist like VIA storing trains in their tracks, as well as the Revitalization of Union is not complete yet. Double berthing, new platform 28 (replacing a pass through track). And consider several tracks at Union have been closed for revitalization at various points.

Union capacity is an issue, but we already do 7.5 minute peak Lakeshore West at 4:45-5:45 -- the extra capacity adds room for 15min for all routes all day long.

It is the 5minute scenarios that may not happen....
 
edmundoconnor said:
Every other city of comparable size has numerous hubs where the traffic is dispersed, and even that isn't enough sometimes (London Waterloo station at rush hour makes Union station look tame and sedate by comparison: look at the crowds when something goes wrong on ONE part of the network).

A second station should be a given, but the penny-pinching nature of Toronto/Ontario/Canadian politics mean that no level has the brass to take on a megaproject like that. Ridership levels are growing, and will grow even more with RER and SmartTrack.
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Here. Here. I second this notion.

EDIT: Or is it "Hear. Hear."? In any regard, this is a solid prediction of what is to come. Growth in the GTHA is occurring whether we like it or not.
 
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