Toronto Union Station Revitalization | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | NORR

[P23]

Except that the TTC logo has been removed! Everything else is identified by its logo. I don't think the line number is necessary on this sign. It's more useful on the signs at the subway station but at this location people would be looking for direction to the subway.

Part of the reason is that I intensely dislike the TTC logo.

Another reason is that this is a hub for national and international travelers and the TTC logo doesn't really help them since they probably don't recognize it. Might as well replace it with the subway line, it offers more useful information than the logo and it still says subway underneath.

 

[Hairball]

I think having "1" with "Subway" underneath is far more meaningful than the TTC logo with "Subway" in a smaller font underneath. The 1 draws your attention much more, and is much clearer. People don't really care that the TTC runs the subway, they just want to get to Line 1.

GO can't be identified with the number because the routes don't always stop at the same platforms. Personally, what I'd like to see is, rather than simply the platform number above each door, an LCD screen with the platform number on the top half, and whatever train is arriving next on that platform on the bottom half, and the departure time. Something like this:

13
12:43 Lakeshore West

That I think would help passengers immensely, especially occasional users, to let them know that they're going up the right set of stairs for the train they want to catch.

The TTC line number thing might be confusing with the platform numbers that GO uses. Different discussion altogether, but it would be nice if for the subway they stuck with the old naming format, or use colours for names like what Montreal does, and save the numbers for platforms - especially in the future if we end up with more interchange stations. GO did the switch to platform numbers instead of track numbers a few years ago.

I imagine GO started with platform 3 at Union because presumably platforms 1 and 2 are for the TTC subway.

 

[Hairball]

Part of the reason is that I intensely dislike the TTC logo.

Another reason is that this is a hub for national and international travelers and the TTC logo doesn't really help them since they probably don't recognize it. Might as well replace it with the subway line, it offers more useful information than the logo and it still says subway underneath.

Yeah, the TTC logo is horrible when it is shrunk down, I know it's been around, but a rebranding could definitely help enhance signage. Or at least use a generic subway looking symbol to point to subways.

 

[gweed123]

The TTC line number thing might be confusing with the platform numbers that GO uses. Different discussion altogether, but it would be nice if for the subway they stuck with the old naming format, or use colours for names like what Montreal does, and save the numbers for platforms - especially in the future if we end up with more interchange stations. GO did the switch to platform numbers instead of track numbers a few years ago.

I imagine GO started with platform 3 at Union because presumably platforms 1 and 2 are for the TTC subway.

Well hopefully once RER is implemented they'll be able to standardize the platform arrivals. What I mean by that is every service (Lakeshore West + East, Brampton-Markham, etc) will each have their own dedicated platform(s), and GO will be able to place that route number permanently above the door.

And I don't think there will be too much confusion between GO platform numbers and TTC route numbers, especially when the route number has "Subway" under it.

 

[mdrejhon]

I think having "1" with "Subway" underneath is far more meaningful than the TTC logo with "Subway" in a smaller font underneath. The 1 draws your attention much more, and is much clearer. People don't really care that the TTC runs the subway, they just want to get to Line 1.

On the other hand, it can allow new visitors to associate the TTC logo with the word "subway". I think this would be a nonstarter -- TTC and Metrolinx would object to full removal of the TTC logo.

 

[Hairball]

Well hopefully once RER is implemented they'll be able to standardize the platform arrivals. What I mean by that is every service (Lakeshore West + East, Brampton-Markham, etc) will each have their own dedicated platform(s), and GO will be able to place that route number permanently above the door.

And I don't think there will be too much confusion between GO platform numbers and TTC route numbers, especially when the route number has "Subway" under it.

Yeah, I really hope when RER comes we'd have dedicated platforms, it'd make so much more sense and less confusion.

True, I was referring to how it can be confusing for visitors, though it doesn't really matter, I doubt many are using current GO services right now, but if RER comes along it might need to be looked at.

After visiting some other cities like Montreal and Vancouver, it's remarkable that our signage throughout the various transit systems is crap.

 

[P23]

Yeah, the TTC logo is horrible when it is shrunk down, I know it's been around, but a rebranding could definitely help enhance signage. Or at least use a generic subway looking symbol to point to subways.

It definitely needs a redesign. It doesn't need to be a big change, just remove the 10,000 strokes and make the text legible.

 

[gweed123]

On the other hand, it can allow new visitors to associate the TTC logo with the word "subway". I think this would be a nonstarter -- TTC and Metrolinx would object to full removal of the TTC logo.

I think for visitors, getting associated with which line they can catch where is much more useful than learning the TTC logo. When I'm in a new city, take Boston for example, I don't care that there's a T station a block away. I care that I can catch the Red Line at that station.

Yeah, I really hope when RER comes we'd have dedicated platforms, it'd make so much more sense and less confusion.

True, I was referring to how it can be confusing for visitors, though it doesn't really matter, I doubt many are using current GO services right now, but if RER comes along it might need to be looked at.

After visiting some other cities like Montreal and Vancouver, it's remarkable that our signage throughout the various transit systems is crap.

Agreed completely. I think it's the hodgepodge that's confusing in Toronto. Even within the TTC, the wayfinding varies from station to station. They're trying to remedy that, but when they can't coordinate the signage in the brand new Union Subway Station to look like and read the same way as the signage in the brand new York Concourse, it doesn't give me much hope.

 

[Komiksulo]

Maybe there could just be a TTC logo (simplified or not) with generic subway, streetcar, and bus symbols? Are there any TTC bus stops near Union but away from the Bay/Front intersection?

Edit: I wonder whether a principle of "simplification with distance", for lack of a better name, might be useful? For example, the sign in the picture might just say "TTC bus, subway, and streetcar this way". Only as you got closer would it increase in detail and say "Line one and streetcars this way, buses upstairs"...

But I agree with the other posters who mention being clearer which airport the train is going to... why don't we have signage to direct to the Island Airport shuttles/streetcars? Would that add a layer of confusion, especially if it was introduced around the same time as the Pearson train?

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

I like that. Particularly the use of the new TTC numbering (not sure why that wasn't included), and the non-duplication of the platform numbers to show wheelchair access. I also like the elimination of the pictograms, except for the ticket counter.

Wasn't there a discussion a few pages back about use of pictograms? I.E. GO (Trains or buses?) and TTC (Subway, Streetcar, or buses)

 

[gweed123]

Wasn't there a discussion a few pages back about use of pictograms? I.E. GO (Trains or buses?) and TTC (Subway, Streetcar, or buses)

I don't recall. I know it's been discussed in the past, particularly with how awful the new TTC streetcar pictogram is. Pictograms for things like ticket counters, washrooms, and wheelchair access make sense. But less so for transit lines, especially when those transit lines have a number or letter attached to them, with a dedicated symbol (like Line 1).

 

[nfitz]

I don't recall. I know it's been discussed in the past, particularly with how awful the new TTC streetcar pictogram is. Pictograms for things like ticket counters, washrooms, and wheelchair access make sense. But less so for transit lines, especially when those transit lines have a number or letter attached to them, with a dedicated symbol (like Line 1).

Have you seen the new pictogram anywhere official? They seem to keep using the old one in recent publications and signage I've seen. Or perhaps it just doesn't look offensive in the wild.

 

[gweed123]

Have you seen the new pictogram anywhere official? They seem to keep using the old one in recent publications and signage I've seen. Or perhaps it just doesn't look offensive in the wild.

Not that I know of. Then again, I haven't really been looking for it. Does anyone know if it's used on the new 2nd platform at Union? That's the only station that's been redone recently to which streetcars actually connect.

 

[P23]

Have you seen the new pictogram anywhere official? They seem to keep using the old one in recent publications and signage I've seen. Or perhaps it just doesn't look offensive in the wild.

Brad Ross tweeted it many months ago but I haven't seen it in actual use, thankfully. There was quite a lot of negative feedback so maybe they binned it.

 

[nfitz]

Does anyone know if it's used on the new 2nd platform at Union?

That's an interesting question. I did follow the signage the other day from the west end of the north subway platform, up and over to the south platform, and then along to the streetcar platform, in a big rush late for a meeting, and never having done it before (the signage worked!) ... and I don't recall seeing the new symbol. Though I can't recall seeing any symbol. I might be popping over to Union later today, I'll keep my eyes open.