Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

dowlingm said:
That wasn't what I had a problem with. Metro/subway does not see the mix of traffic Union approaches does, and 15 minute headways (and the terminal limitations) isn't what Torontonians consider a metro/subway norm.
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Perhaps not, but many NYC subways are that infrequent offpeak. I've seen timetables less frequent than GO RER

On Yonge Line, we are lucky to have one of North America's most frequent subway service with headways mainly found in Japan and European systems. We may not have an extensive subway system, but Yonge is very frequent, all things considered. We are the outlier by North American standards.

I am of the belief, GO RER should rename to "GO Metro" to tell Doug we already have a "subway" to Pickering. No need for stupendously expensive tunnels along the GO network (well, except maybe extra tracks underneath Union Station later, when capacity is needed).

For this very reason, saving face, sometimes it's politically expedient to consider 15min as the bare minimum frequency for Metro. ("Metro" is a better term than "subway" for surface routes anyway, given a surface commuter train converted to sufficiently frequent rapid transit 5min peak / 15min offpeak AD2W)
 
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ssiguy2 said:
Shame Metrolinx has gone out of its way to make sure no one uses it
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It was built to transport people to and from the airport to downtown Toronto it was not built to be the commuter train it has become. What Metrlonx should do is run more go trains between Union and Westion station stopping at Bloor along the way to relieve some som of the pasengers from UPX that are using it like a go train.
 
dowlingm said:
Saying this doesn't make it true, like many other things you say.
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It's amazing how stuck up and pampered we have become in Toronto that some don't consider the UPX a Metro Line.

Many, many other cities in North America and even Europe would.
 
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robmausser said:
It's amazing how stuck up and pampered we have become in Toronto that some don't consider the UPX a Metro Line.

Many, many other cities in North America and even Europe would.
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It's not branded as a metro line because it isn't one it is and always was supposed to be an express service to and from the airport and downtrown., hence the name Union Pearson Express.
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
It's not branded as a metro line because it isn't one it is and always was supposed to be an express service to and from the airport and downtrown., hence the name Union Pearson Express.
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Right, that service level that stops at all but one of the local service stations while adding one new stop. EXPRESS!
 
BurlOak said:
Just went through Google map for the full length. It looks grade-separated to me.
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But it's not fully grade-separated though. With full grade-separation comes both road and rail separations, this one doesn't have the latter. Look at the section through Etobicoke, surely that would limit it becoming anything beyond a 15min service. I'm down with using the term subway/metro when appropriate, but personally wouldn't in the UPX scenario.
 
robmausser said:
Its amazing how stuck up and pampered we have become in Toronto that some don't consider the UPX a Metro Line.

Many, many other cities in North America and even Europe would.
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I really don't think any other city in Europe or NA for that matter would refer to a diesel train as a metro. I think that's just crossing the line.
 
felix123 said:
I really don't think any other city in Europe or NA for that matter would refer to a diesel train as a metro. I think that's just crossing the line.
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These are all the cases I know of where diesel train service has the word "Metro" as part of their official title:
* Metro North - NYC
* Capital Metrorail - Houston
* Metro Commuter Services - Philippines
* Adelaide Metro - Adelaide, Metro 3000 Class cars.

All 4 run commuter service pattern; so I think your point stands.

If you go back a generation you can find experimental services on London Overground, such as the Cross Town Link-Line but those either die from lack of ridership or got converted to electric when made a permanent service.

At this point, most European entities are intending to de-carbonize all railway services over the next couple decades.
 
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rbt said:
These are all the cases I know of where diesel train service has the word "Metro" as part of their official title:
* Metro North - NYC
* Capital Metrorail - Houston
* Metro Commuter Services - Philippines
* Adelaide Metro - Adelaide, Metro 3000 Class cars.

All 4 run commuter service pattern; so I think your point stands.

If you go back a generation you can find experimental services on London Overground, such as the Cross Town Link-Line but those either die from lack of ridership or got converted to electric when made a permanent service.

At this point, most European entities are intending to de-carbonize all railway services over the next couple decades.
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The O-Train Trillium Line is also considered a Metro service, not commuter, it's a "diesel light-rail transit (DLRT)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trillium_Line

And E-Bart https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBART

As is the San Diego Sprinter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprinter_(light_rail)
 
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There are lots of diesel commuter services that would have been cost prohibitive had electrification been required for their inception. Dallas, Portland, Seattle, Sonoma are all examples of DMU operations with 'Metro' characteristics. Not to mention a sizeable proportion of Great Britain's regional and local trains.

The original incarnation of UP was not that different from other services that were conceived as low-cost startups..... it assumed that there was a supply of venerable Budd RDC's available.

After the private sector proposal fell apart, and ML was given the design mandate, they landed on a carbon copy of the highly successful airport service in Oslo Norway, which was implemented on a route that was already electrified. It would have been ludicrous to try and build an electrified infrastructure just for UP - given a) it would have been hugely wasteful to design and build a power supply infrastructure sized for only UP..... the infrasructure had to anticipate a full GO electrification and b) it would have been likewise to push electrification into USRC signalling and trackage before the full GO electrification was designed. So diesel was a very reasonable choice for UP and followed abundant precedent and best practice for that.

I would ask a somewhat different question: Show me a place in North America where a niche transit need was identified, and met, before the general transit needs of the same locality were properly addressed. Wynne was the culprit: her promise to have UPE running in time for the Pan Am games shifted the priority of GTS from improving the Georgetown GO service to getting UPE in place at all cost. The Kitchener Line ought to have been the horse, and UP the cart, but it all got balled up from there.

- Paul
 
Get anyone making regional transit decisions a plane ticket to Tokyo. New York and London are amateurs. Seamless urban core, metro, and national rail. JP rail does the heavy lifting and the subway systems (bizarre privatized duopoly) takes care of the last mile. Toronto planners and politicians desperately need to visit.

The elephant in the room of a city-region with big aspirations is that eventually you can’t just feed the core. Tokyo is decentralized with multiple downtowns locates as hubs along the main circular circuit.

Smart planning in Toronto for the future isn’t about what the mode is called or even what it is. It’s about identifying how we can eventually decentralize the system and where the hubs will be. Maybe one hub is Union, one is Pearson. If so connect the crap out of them, and radiate feeds out from there.

The Japanese understand system architecture, the Germans understand system architecture, we are clueless.
 
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