robmausser
Senior Member
A chunk of that 500 million was for the Georgetown South expansion, which while enabled the UPX is not exclusive to it.
Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited
A chunk of that 500 million was for the Georgetown South expansion, which while enabled the UPX is not exclusive to it.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
The Union Pearson Express uses the GO Transit fare system. If it's too expensive, then so are all the other lines.
Which is actually true, for short trips such as those within the 22 km Union-Pearson segment. You see similarly low ridership from other short-haul stations, such as Danforth, York University and Mimico, likely due to the $4.71 minimum for any trip on GO.
So, yes, fares are an issue, but it's much bigger than this particular line. Shifting the operation of the UPX might be good for optics, but it doesn't solve the fundamental issue. The real solution is regional fare integration, which Metrolinx is already working on. A less fragmented fare system would be a fundamental change to travel in the region. We would have fewer people cramming into the subway at Finch, Kipling, Kennedy and Downsview/Vaughan to take advantage of the absurdly cheap long-distance fare, and we would have more people boarding the expanded GO train services (including UPX) to take advantage of their higher speed. And most importantly, with commuter rail brought into people's consciousness for trips within the city, there would be less of this senseless demand for subways everywhere regardless of cost.
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rbt
Senior Member
You've underestimated the cost of that upgrade. The entire package (Georgetown south, rail-rail grade separation, UPX) collectively were a little over $2B.
The $500M for UPX mostly went into stuff outside the Georgetown corridor (Pearson/Union stations & track).
It's extremely disappointing that GO still hasn't quite figured out how to run additional trains given the long complete capital expenditure.
Palma
Senior Member
Well, guess Metrolinx has got quite a PR job ahead of them
steveintoronto
Superstar
UPX is not a "complete design failure"...much of the engineering is usable in other ways, it's an *implementation* failure. And some of that has now been corrected as best it can without further re-implementation. To do anything more with the present rolling stock is nigh impossible. And to add more is not an option either. We've got to stop looking at this as a "failure" and look forward to recovering what we can, without losing the original purpose, and making it part of something much bigger and better. The airport function remains a very valid and vital piece. The way it was done was a fiscal failure, obviously, but other than the rolling stock, it's time to move on. And unless MX show some sign soon of putting an emphasis on electrifying Bramalea south to Union, that corridor is stuck languishing. They're going to need to order in EMUs and very soon, delivery time is two years at the shortest, even for 'off-the-shelf' designs.
We get lots of station announcements...but as Paul is fond of saying, and he's very right...even bus-shelters will do just to get the thing started. They can build palaces later. We need some *cogent sign* that service is coming, and station announcements when the financing hasn't even been discussed, let alone appropriated is becoming more bizarre and obtuse every time it happens.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
If you're talking about Union-Pearson then it's because Union UP Station only has a single track. And if you're talking about Union-Bramalea, then it's probably because the south platform is still under construction.
As for the value of the investment, like Steve said, there's a big difference between money "spent on UP" and money spent on infrastructure used by UP, even where UP is the exclusive user.
Is the current Union-Pearson service worth $500 Million? Dunno, probably not.
But was it worthwhile to build an elevated railway link to the airport and associated stations? Absolutely.
$500 million would get us less than 2 km of subway, and instead we got a 3 km elevated guideway allowing for a 22 km commuter line travelling at up to 130 km/h. Say what you will about the current service offering, but the fact is that this is a standard railway. While it can't carry big heavy trains, it can carry the multiple units we plan to run in urban service. It could just as easily handle subway-like local service to Toronto, or a non-stop shuttle to downtown. And, being double tracked and signalized, it could even do both!
If you want to deride a ridiculous $500 million airport rail expenditure, check out the new AirBART in Oakland, CA. It's just a 5 km people-mover using the same technology as our Pearson LINK train.
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steveintoronto
Superstar
As an aside to that (and I completely agree, it borders on the surreal) I could have sworn I glanced up to see a six car F59 hauled (pushed actually) consist going north (west) on the K/W corridor just before noon today. My first thought was "Oh...maybe they're running shorter consists now outside of peak"...and then the F59 struck me as being odd on that route. So if they are putting out shorter trains on the off-peak, they may be using what's left of the F59 fleet to run shorter consists, rather than dropping cars off the MP40 ones. I guess that would save doing the brake test too.
Anyone else spot this or was this an anomaly?
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Megaton327
Senior Member
Are you 100% sure you saw that today and not over the weekend? Because the Barrie line has two 6-car trains, at least one of which is F59-pushed, on weekends (and for the 340/645 northbound departures weekdays, and a couple of limited Maple-Union runs down weekday mornings). I was on a 6-car/F59 Barrie train Saturday.
That said, if Barrie's weekend service uses it, it seems plausible that off-peak Kitchener trains could use the same thing. Actually it would make a lot of sense as the F59 6-car on Barrie that makes a run down from Maple in the morning could then be used for off-peak Kitchener before making its 340 or 645 northbound run on Barrie later, instead of sitting in a yard somewhere.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Yup, definitely today, had to do a double-take as I first saw it out of the corner of my eye walking on Perth Av to catch the UPX downtown.
It would make a huge amount of sense, not the least that even if the 59s are not up to their original power ratings, it's cheaper and more efficient to run them than MP40s and a full peak consist. You've probably verified what I saw, but I wasn't close enough to see if it was empty or not. It did slow to stop at the Bloor Station though. Maybe training run?
rbt
Senior Member
UPX being single track is disappointing but that was a known design restriction from the beginning and fit with their targeted service.
The current technical restrictions for GO service expansion Union-Bramalea piss me off. It's been 2 years after completion of the of the Georgetown work which took damn near a decade (including the West Toronto Diamond work) and they're still piddling around with pieces that could have been built in parallel and should not have been a surprise in any way.
Imagine if TTC announced in 2017 that Spadina extension cannot open until 2019 because they forgot to build a platform at York University station? Not delayed construction, but tendering that work completely slipped their mind? Heads would roll.
Metrolinx's strategy of building A then looking to see if they might need B too (yes, B was known to be required long ago) is frustrating.
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Napoleon
Active Member
Heads up for anyone heading to the airport:
http://www.cp24.com/news/service-su...up-express-after-fatality-on-tracks-1.2964575
I arrived at Bloor station just about 2 minutes after this happened. There were already 3 passengers waiting, and the agent sprung into action to arrange taxis for us to Pearson. Pretty impressed with the service. It took about 5-10 minutes for taxis to arrive, and a taxi at that time of the morning takes almost twice as long as the train, but it still wasn't catastrophic.
Oddly enough, taxi driver was a jerk. There were 3 of us in the cab, me going to Terminal 1 and two people going to Terminal 3. He kept trying to get an extra $10 to drive us to both terminals even though the voucher was just a write-in amount. Pretty annoying!
http://www.cp24.com/news/service-su...up-express-after-fatality-on-tracks-1.2964575
I arrived at Bloor station just about 2 minutes after this happened. There were already 3 passengers waiting, and the agent sprung into action to arrange taxis for us to Pearson. Pretty impressed with the service. It took about 5-10 minutes for taxis to arrive, and a taxi at that time of the morning takes almost twice as long as the train, but it still wasn't catastrophic.
Oddly enough, taxi driver was a jerk. There were 3 of us in the cab, me going to Terminal 1 and two people going to Terminal 3. He kept trying to get an extra $10 to drive us to both terminals even though the voucher was just a write-in amount. Pretty annoying!
k10ery
Senior Member
I agree with everything you said. An overpriced train with using the wrong rolling stock to serve an incredibly small market of mostly non-residents. That's a complete design failure. All because of a 20-year-old federal commitment that never made sense but that no one had the courage to walk away from.
We need someone to say that the plan is to create a surface subway on the corridor and start working towards that. Anything else is a waste of a multi-billion dollar asset.
smallspy
Senior Member
All 3 mid-day trains are now scheduled to be operated by 3 of the 4 6-car trainsets.
Dan
Toronto, Ont.
steveintoronto
Superstar
The last three I've watched go by, north and south, (Up and Down) (it's now 10:10AM) have been MP40 10 car sets. Perhaps today's service disruption has delayed changing in the shorter consists, I'll keep watching.
If they have decided to run shorter consists, which makes eminent sense, that flies in the face of others in these forums dissing the suggested idea some months back. It not only saves needless wear and tear, it saves fuel and uses the second lifetime of the refurbished F59s. I'll keep watching out my 18th floor window while working to see what shows later.
Anyone have a link for this?
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