Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

Palma said:
and we are expected to believe Metrolinx?
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I rode the UPX from Weston to Union yesterday morning. It was rather empty with ~15 people from the airport. There were about 10-15 more riders who boarded from Weston. Trains are still pretty empty at most times.
 
sixrings said:
And even so if you added half a dozen stations it would still be the fastest way to the airport.
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If you increase stops, you cant get to the airport in 25 mins. I would guess that you would double the travel time, at least. We dont know what the exact numbers are because airport authorities and airlines dont like to share numbers in regards to business traveler versus leisure or VFR. But we can safely say that Business travel is alot. I dont see how turning the UP express into a milk run of about one hour is going to entice the business traveler (whose travel expenses are coverred) to take the UPX over a cab or limo. If you are not paying directly out of your pocket for a service, your price elasticity is going to be different and your employer will alwys encourage the option with the fewest hassles and commute times.
 
Burnt creek said:
If you increase stops, you cant get to the airport in 25 mins. I would guess that you would double the travel time, at least. We dont know what the exact numbers are because airport authorities and airlines dont like to share numbers in regards to business traveler versus leisure or VFR. But we can safely say that Business travel is alot. I dont see how turning the UP express into a milk run of about one hour is going to entice the business traveler (whose travel expenses are coverred) to take the UPX over a cab or limo. If you are not paying directly out of your pocket for a service, your price elasticity is going to be different and your employer will alwys encourage the option with the fewest hassles and commute times.
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You can run a multilayered service like Paris RER Line B.

It has an airport spur. It runs every 3 minutes. Not all trains go down the spur. It has often four or five different stopping plans at any one time. Some express, some semiexpress, some allstop.

Departure boards show checkboxes of which stations the current train stops at.
 
I think by doing a 2 month TTC fare experiment they will be able to get a gauge of how well {or not} a ST system would do in the city. It would also give Metrolinx a sense of the latent demand their is in the city for a suburban/RER system and how many commuters there are who would use GO right now if they were able to.
 
Metrolinx is a huge problem.

We are planning the Scarborough subway, but its need could be eliminated/altered with a good Markham RER plan.

We are planning a DRL, but its need could be altered with a good Richmond Hill RER plan.

We are planning a waterfront LRT, but its need could be eliminated/altered with a good LSE RER plan.

We are really held hostage because Metrolinx has their own agenda to help the provincial government, and not to plan on a Regional basis.
 
When I was at Union, the incoming UPX train arriving about 8:38am or so (the one for the 8:45am departure) was overloaded with lots of standees. There seemed to be lots of commuters on that peak-period train. It departed relatively light, with about a couple (or three) dozen suitcase-carrying passengers plus only an extremely few that wasn't carrying anything.

Presumably some trains can easily be 80% airport travellers, and other specific trains (at peak hour) can easily be 80% commuters.
 
mdrejhon said:
When I was at Union, the incoming UPX train arriving about 8:38am or so (the one for the 8:45am departure) was overloaded with lots of standees. There seemed to be lots of commuters on that peak-period train. It departed relatively light, with about a couple (or three) dozen suitcase-carrying passengers plus only an extremely few that wasn't carrying anything.

Presumably some trains can easily be 80% airport travellers, and other specific trains (at peak hour) can easily be 80% commuters.
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The rush period to the airport is uncomfortably adjacent to the one for normal city commuting. You have the overnight redeyes heading east from 7-11pm (so heading to the airport from 5-9pm) plus the daytrippers from Mtl/Ottawa etc heading home. This is why I previously proposed that UPX price relaxation should either have a time basis, or be done last for ex-Union trips, or both to mitigate trains from becoming oversubscribed too quickly and eroding the attractiveness of the service for airport users.
 
ssiguy2 said:
Commuter ridership will continue to remain low. Very fe people live at Weston station or Bloor West which means they have to take the bus/subway to get there............on other words a TTC & UPX fare which few will part with the kind of money everyday. People are price sensitive as GO's lousy ridership numbers in Toronto can attest.

For Pearson workers it also is still too expensive. If they were to bring immediate fare integration then ridership would double or triple overnight and probably quadruple if they were to open an Etobicoke North station.

They should use the UPX as a study case for the introduction of Smart Tracks. What they should do is run the service at a TTC fare with TTC integration for even a couple months. They could then find out how many people will really use a ST system.
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I noticed that on the weekend, when the Mt Pleasant trains aren't running, UPX *seems* to get considerably more traffic. Not an objective view as much as subjective, but I've been using UPX for connecting through on the Lakeshore line with bike to destinations out of town. It may just be the warm weather bringing people out on the weekend. Btw: Had no problems tapping on the once on GO machines, and tapping off at destination as far as the computed fare. I've been burned too many times in the past doing creative travel with Presto. and tapping on and off, on and off doubles Presto's chances of getting it wrong....
 
ssiguy2 said:
I think by doing a 2 month TTC fare experiment they will be able to get a gauge of how well {or not} a ST system would do in the city. It would also give Metrolinx a sense of the latent demand their is in the city for a suburban/RER system and how many commuters there are who would use GO right now if they were able to.
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I doubt that will happen. Don't forget this is a premium service and not a part of the subway system as well it's not under the TTC's jurisdiction.
 
steveintoronto said:
I noticed that on the weekend, when the Mt Pleasant trains aren't running, UPX *seems* to get considerably more traffic. Not an objective view as much as subjective, but I've been using UPX for connecting through on the Lakeshore line with bike to destinations out of town. It may just be the warm weather bringing people out on the weekend. Btw: Had no problems tapping on the once on GO machines, and tapping off at destination as far as the computed fare. I've been burned too many times in the past doing creative travel with Presto. and tapping on and off, on and off doubles Presto's chances of getting it wrong....
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We've been using it to go to TFC matches (tap on at Weston, switch to LSW, tap off at Ex) and have noticed others doing the same thing.
 
TOareaFan said:
We've been using it to go to TFC matches (tap on at Weston, switch to LSW, tap off at Ex) and have noticed others doing the same thing.
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Indeed! I asked why they had a three car train on that day, and the answer was "for the Blue Jays game". Now that you mention it, about eight passengers got on at Bloor, one other with a bike, and the rest looked like they were headed to a game. It represents excellent value for the money, *especially* when connecting to the Lakeshore line on the weekend when there is no regular GO train on that corridor. I timed it just right to connect with an eastbound GO to Rouge Hill with only minutes to spare.

This is completely subjective, since I was in a really good space on the weekend too, sunshine and getting back into good shape working up to serious long-distance jaunts, but the mood on the train was the most positive I've ever found it. I think staff are also happy it's getting used a lot more. And of course, no business people since it was the weekend.
 
Although the 'Downtown Relief Line' forum would be the most apt for this, it has wide implications for this string too, not needed to be explained to most posters here.

The Dog's Breakfast continues. I'm not being vindictive stating that, it's just that many of us thought this particular debate in terms of 'SmartTrack' was already put to rest. Evidently not so, and perhaps there's more written between the lines on this than first apparent. Btw: I haven't fully researched direct quotes, will do later, I'm curious as to how Tory used the term "subway" if at all:
[...]
Toronto’s mayor actually spent most of his remarks talking up his own SmartTrack transit plan, which would rely on the province’s GO Train rail corridors. He said SmartTrack would complement and not compete with the relief line, as some critics have charged, noting that SmartTrack would be up and running much sooner, in six years.

Both transit plans, the mayor insisted, would make riding the Yonge line less crowded. And he said the province’s $150-million would help keep the relief subway line on schedule and “shovel ready” as soon as possible.

Answering questions from reporters, Mr. Tory also defended the city’s $2-billion Scarborough subway extension plan, which TTC officials revealed this week would have fewer riders than originally projected.

While original estimates suggested up to 14,000 riders would board the extension of the Bloor-Danforth subway at Scarborough Town Centre in its peak hour of operation in its busiest direction each day, new numbers show just 7,300 riders are now expected. Critics say a light-rail line with multiple stops would serve more people and cost less.[...]
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...orontos-downtown-relief-line/article30239188/

Interesting, for many reasons....comments folks?
 
mdrejhon said:
When I was at Union, the incoming UPX train arriving about 8:38am or so (the one for the 8:45am departure) was overloaded with lots of standees. There seemed to be lots of commuters on that peak-period train. It departed relatively light, with about a couple (or three) dozen suitcase-carrying passengers plus only an extremely few that wasn't carrying anything.

Presumably some trains can easily be 80% airport travellers, and other specific trains (at peak hour) can easily be 80% commuters.
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I hate to sound like a broken record here, but did you happen to notice whether it was a 2-car or 3-car train?
 
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