Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[TOareaFan]

Toronto to Montreal VIA will run through Weston? Are you sure? Is this more of VIA's braindead circuitous routing of it's trains? Because last I checked the Union Terminal is to the East of Weston and Montreal is East of Union. There would be no reason for VIA trains running between Toronto and Montreal to be in Weston. To suggest such a thing is asinine.

Agree with the bulk of your post...so no need to quote/repeat it.

I think the notion is that once the infrastructure on the NW line is improved it could be possible to start some Montreal bound trains further up this line....go through Union before heading to Montreal....thus giving more people a direct "no change of trains" connection to Montreal....similar to what is done now with some trains starting their journey in Oakville (which, last time I checked is also west of Union! )

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Agree with the bulk of your post...so no need to quote/repeat it.

I think the notion is that once the infrastructure on the NW line is improved it could be possible to start some Montreal bound trains further up this line....go through Union before heading to Montreal....thus giving more people a direct "no change of trains" connection to Montreal....similar to what is done now with some trains starting their journey in Oakville (which, last time I checked is also west of Union! )

Are you suggesting Western Toronto residents bound for Montreal? Or riders from further west such as Mississauga, Brampton, Guelph-Kitchener-Waterloo, or Hamilton doing the same? Doing the first would mean building a new VIA station somewhere along that line, unless it is built at pearson and used for the purpose you described. The second, IMHO, is not what the poster meant, as he said Toronto-Montreal not GTA or some western suburb of toronto (but not in Toronto proper). Would Weston allow their new station to be built as a Via station on top of, what?, Blue22 and GO service?

For the record I do support a VIA station at the Airport, as well as one at North Toronto to make access to VIA much easier to those outside the core city.

 

[TOareaFan]

Are you suggesting Western Toronto residents bound for Montreal? Or riders from further west such as Mississauga, Brampton, Guelph-Kitchener-Waterloo, or Hamilton doing the same? Doing the first would mean building a new VIA station somewhere along that line, unless it is built at pearson and used for the purpose you described. The second, IMHO, is not what the poster meant, as he said Toronto-Montreal not GTA or some western suburb of toronto (but not in Toronto proper). Would Weston allow their new station to be built as a Via station on top of, what?, Blue22 and GO service?

For the record I do support a VIA station at the Airport, as well as one at North Toronto to make access to VIA much easier to those outside the core city.

Maybe I should go back and read his post. I was just suggesting that, in addition to the increased GO service, one of the public gains from the public infrastructure investment could be the extension of VIA service (which it seems you agree with)....I would not draw a distinction between western Toronto (ie. 416 west) and suburbs....maybe, with more thought, I should.

Perhpas the best model is that we use Malton as the connection between the airport and VIA/GO (it already seems to be a VIA and GO stop though I must say whenever I ride VIA home to Brampton it never stops in Malton...what does?).....extend the people mover to Malton so that people on the GO and VIA can use this station as their "Pearson Station" and allow the private service to build their spur directly into the the terminal.

 

[nfitz]

....thus giving more people a direct "no change of trains" connection to Montreal....similar to what is done now with some trains starting their journey in Oakville (which, last time I checked is also west of Union! )

Well, if you count a train running through Weston as being Toronto-Monteal, because it later stops in both Toronto and Montreal, then VIA has been doing this informally for years. It's quite typical for VIA (who unlike GO always runs with their engines on the front of their train) to start a train in Windsor or Sarnia, run it to Toronto, and then change the route number and run it it to Ottawa or Montreal, so that they don't have to physically turn around the engine. I've certainly been on the occasional train where I have boarded in Kitchener, passed through Weston, arrived in Toronto, and been told that passengers continuing on Train X to Montreal can stay on the train, because it's the same one.

I'm perplexed on how this causes any trouble for those living in Weston though.

 

[TOareaFan]

Well, if you count a train running through Weston as being Toronto-Monteal, because it later stops in both Toronto and Montreal, then VIA has been doing this informally for years. It's quite typical for VIA (who unlike GO always runs with their engines on the front of their train) to start a train in Windsor or Sarnia, run it to Toronto, and then change the route number and run it it to Ottawa or Montreal, so that they don't have to physically turn around the engine. I've certainly been on the occasional train where I have boarded in Kitchener, passed through Weston, arrived in Toronto, and been told that passengers continuing on Train X to Montreal can stay on the train, because it's the same one.

I'm perplexed on how this causes any trouble for those living in Weston though.

I must just have bad luck then! I have, twice, taken the "Brampton to Ottawa" train and each time had to a) change trains and b) wait such a long time for the connection that even my train-friendly patience was wondering if I would have been better off just driving to Ottawa!

Like I said, probably just bad luck in the booking!

 

[MisterF]

Of course the only condition I really have is the one you pointed out; that SNC Lavalin not get exclusive rights over tracks. They can operate their service. They can even be subsidized with free tin cans to operate it with. They can make whatever stops they want. But in the end they should have to operate on the tracks as an equal with GO and VIA. Other than that, I saw let them give it a try and see how well it goes. Oh, and no bailouts for them if the service turns out to not be as profitable as they thought it would be.

I agree, and I'll add that if a private company owned the land and built the Pearson spur themselves, then they should have exclusive rights over the tracks. But if it's public money paying for the spur to Pearson, there should be public trains using it. If a private train can survive alongside GO, TTC, or VIA trains serving the airport, then by all means they should be able to operate a premium service.

 

[jamesbow]

Toronto to Montreal VIA will run through Weston? Are you sure? Is this more of VIA's braindead circuitous routing of it's trains? Because last I checked the Union Terminal is to the East of Weston and Montreal is East of Union. There would be no reason for VIA trains running between Toronto and Montreal to be in Weston. To suggest such a thing is asinine.

Not really. If they ever get the TGV proposal up and running between Toronto and Montreal, one way it can help reduce air congestion would be to through-route these trains through the Weston sub and up the spur to the Airport, producing Pearson-Union-Dorval-Montreal trains. Air passengers could then take a connecting train to Montreal as easily as they take a connecting flight to New York.

...James

 

[TOareaFan]

I agree, and I'll add that if a private company owned the land and built the Pearson spur themselves, then they should have exclusive rights over the tracks. But if it's public money paying for the spur to Pearson, there should be public trains using it. If a private train can survive alongside GO, TTC, or VIA trains serving the airport, then by all means they should be able to operate a premium service.

That is also my position.

I presume there is a track rental fee payable by the private service operator to the public for use of publicly owned infrastructure? If so, then there should also be a rental fee paid if publicly owned trains want to use the privately built/owned infrastructure into the airport.

I just don't see a need for the public services going directly into the aiprort. The most obvious (and talked about) one would be the Georgetown GO trains. I think the increased travel times caused by a detour into the airport would cause a loss of ridership in their core business (moving commuters to their jobs)......I can't see the ridership pick up from the airport (when facing a faster private service...albeit a more expensive one) offsetting that loss.

I think the best option (as I mentioned in a previous post) would be for the the public systems to connect (either at Malton or a new Woodbine) via an extended people mover. If this means an expenditure to upgrade the thing...so be it.

 

[TOareaFan]

Not really. If they ever get the TGV proposal up and running between Toronto and Montreal, one way it can help reduce air congestion would be to through-route these trains through the Weston sub and up the spur to the Airport, producing Pearson-Union-Dorval-Montreal trains. Air passengers could then take a connecting train to Montreal as easily as they take a connecting flight to New York.

...James

would people actually take a connecting train to Montreal when there are so many flights to Montreal now? Just asking (I have never considered this but at first blush it does not sound like something I would build a business around).

 

[jamesbow]

would people actually take a connecting train to Montreal when there are so many flights to Montreal now? Just asking (I have never considered this but at first blush it does not sound like something I would build a business around).

If it's an actual TGV heading from Pearson to Montreal's downtown, then it might work. We're talking about a three hour trip; two if we're really pushing it. How long are flights from Pearson to Dorval in the air? Now add the task of getting out of Dorval and taking a cab or transit to Montreal's downtown. The TGV might be competitive in terms of time.

It might also benefit from investment from Air Canada, or possibly the federal government itself, if it believes that air traffic between Toronto and Montreal (or Toronto and Ottawa) is such that it's pushing other air services out of Pearson and Dorval. That way, air traffic is routed onto the TGV, and more spaces are opened up for flights elsewhere.

But most of this is largely pie-in-the-sky, and not a reasonable point to raise in the short term in objection to the Weston proposal.

...James

 

[AnarchoSocialist]

would people actually take a connecting train to Montreal when there are so many flights to Montreal now? Just asking (I have never considered this but at first blush it does not sound like something I would build a business around).

It is not just those who might come from Montreal but anyone east of Toronto. Most people I know who live in Kingston or other places like Belleville and Cobourg use Pearson almost exclusively and would likely take the train if an obnoxious connection at Union were eliminated. And even though Montreal does have a lot of flights, Pearson still has more. I live in Ottawa and still fly out of Pearson once a year. I will be flying out of there in May actually. So in short a proper station and connection free trains to Pearson would make a lot of sense.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Maybe I should go back and read his post. I was just suggesting that, in addition to the increased GO service, one of the public gains from the public infrastructure investment could be the extension of VIA service (which it seems you agree with)....I would not draw a distinction between western Toronto (ie. 416 west) and suburbs....maybe, with more thought, I should.

Perhpas the best model is that we use Malton as the connection between the airport and VIA/GO (it already seems to be a VIA and GO stop though I must say whenever I ride VIA home to Brampton it never stops in Malton...what does?).....extend the people mover to Malton so that people on the GO and VIA can use this station as their "Pearson Station" and allow the private service to build their spur directly into the the terminal.

I was just looking for some clarification since after reading your post I realized that the OP's comment was a little vague. As you and other posters have brought up trains on the Toronto-Montreal route but starting in, say, Oakville is still part of the overall Toronto-Motreal route. However I would put that sort of service into a different category/level of service, vs a Union to Montreal station. Much the same way that I can catch a flight from Toronto-Rome that stops over in, say, New York, or get to NY by some other means (car, train, etc) and catch the flight in there, or (in the case of this example) catch a direct flight from Toronto to Rome. All are serving the same route but there is more than one level/type of 'service'. Bottom line is that I could not see how VIA trains, currently, running from points west of Union on the Toronto-Montreal route had any affect on the issue at had i.e. Blue22.

 

[waterloowarrior]

I wish we could take VIA from K-dub to Pearson directly... driving/parking or taking the shuttle are both expensive, and it's hard to get a ride from someone unless you know them pretty well.

 

[TOareaFan]

I wish we could take VIA from K-dub to Pearson directly... driving/parking or taking the shuttle are both expensive, and it's hard to get a ride from someone unless you know them pretty well.

Just out of curiosity....would you view a VIA train to Malton and a transfer the people mover a good option.....always good to ask someone who might use the system rather than guessing!

 

[unimaginative2]

Yeah, that would be okay. I'd use it quite regularly, as would many people I know. In addition to the downtown airport express, there should definitely be at least a people mover connection to a Woodbine station on the GO and VIA lines. In the long term, I'd love to see a full diversion of the rail corridor through the airport, with a station for GO, VIA and airport express trains between Terminal 1 and Terminal 3. Maybe as part of a high-speed rail project.