Amare
Senior Member
Primarily central and northern Etobicoke. Even a little east of there (ie: High Park area, Roncesvalles, etc..)
Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited
Steve X
Senior Member
UPX was setup to be an airport link not public transit. They don't want poor looking people on the train with the elites visiting TO. The 15$ price from Weston and $11 from Bloor to Union reflects that decision.
Since there isn't any elites riding the trains anyways, they should consider decreasing the price at these two stations and run all the Weston GO trains as express.
Since there isn't any elites riding the trains anyways, they should consider decreasing the price at these two stations and run all the Weston GO trains as express.
kotsy
Senior Member
They really need to fix their signage at Bloor station for TTC access. If you follow the TTC signs after you get off the train, you're taken underground then up a fight of stairs to what appears to be an elevator back down and a dead end. There was a narrow walkway around the elevator because of fencing but that was enough to make me and these random people also looking for TTC to backtrack, only to reconfirm that we did indeed take the right path. After a minute of walking past the elevator and no new TTC signage, I found myself in a very large parking lot with no directions to the subway. I walked to the far end and after still not seeing any signange I asked someone loading groceries into her car for directions.
Napoleon
Active Member
They need to improve their signage there in general. The one time I took the UPX and got off at Bloor, it took forever for me to figure out where I was going, and this was with a ton of luggage. The first elevator I found was not in service.
crs1026
Superstar
Friday's Globe article cites figures suggesting UPE has a $60M operating cost with a break even point at around 7,000 passengers per day. Ignoring discount fares, 2500 riders/day is about 35% cost recovery. At that level, giving every UPE customer a free limo ride to the airport, two to a limo, is cheaper. Free 'Executive' coach service - 20 to a bus - would be even cheaper.
The conclusion that I come to is that part of the solution has to be cost cutting. You can't improve cost recovery in the short term if you tinker with fares, it will take time to correct ridership no matter what the fare is.
15 minute headways only at peak, 20 minute off-peak, 30 minute at late hours. Close Bloor/Weston after 9 PM..... that new kiss and ride at Bloor will not be an attractive place to wait for a ride at night. Nobody hangs around Weston/Lawrence after dark. Cancel the uniform contract and issue standard GO uniforms. Close down the UPE business unit, move staff to GO functions to offset whatever attrition/hiring is anticipated as RER gears up. Give staff working notice rather than severance packages.
- Paul
The conclusion that I come to is that part of the solution has to be cost cutting. You can't improve cost recovery in the short term if you tinker with fares, it will take time to correct ridership no matter what the fare is.
15 minute headways only at peak, 20 minute off-peak, 30 minute at late hours. Close Bloor/Weston after 9 PM..... that new kiss and ride at Bloor will not be an attractive place to wait for a ride at night. Nobody hangs around Weston/Lawrence after dark. Cancel the uniform contract and issue standard GO uniforms. Close down the UPE business unit, move staff to GO functions to offset whatever attrition/hiring is anticipated as RER gears up. Give staff working notice rather than severance packages.
- Paul
TOareaFan
Superstar
I have seen this suggestion from a few people about tinkering with frequencies in off peak and, frankly, it is not well thought out. One of the advantages that UP has over vehicle (either private car or taxi or uber) to downtown is a certainty of travel time. It takes 25 minutes to travel from T1 to Union....add in an average wait time of 7.5 minutes and the rider can count on a total travel time of 32.5 minutes.
That time is the same all day......unlike the private vehicle....but you get closer to that time (perhaps even beat it) the further you get from peak rush hour(s). For a different reason, I timed my trip from my office parking lot (Simcoe/Pearl) to near the airport (401/427) on my drive home last Thursday. Timed from leaving parking garage (where a cab would have picked me up on Pearl) to me veering off onto the 401 WB on my way home.....pulled on to Pearl at 6:57pm and trip time (with no "weather" and no accidents...just normal traffic) was 36 minutes...likely would take me another 5 to get from there into the T1 so total ~41 minutes.
That same trip (assuming I left my office to allow a 10 minute walk to UP to coincide with an immediate departure) would be 35 minutes. So a bit of saving in time and a "guarantee" of time. That might be worth it to some one on a tight schedule.
But an hour later (again assuming weather did not come in and major accidents don't happen) the trip time by car probably shortens by 5 minutes (or more) and the variability shrinks.......but, and here's the catch, if you start lowering the frequencies of the UP at the very same time the variability of private car travel is decreasing...I suspect you will be going down the slope towards just shutting the thing down in "off peak".
TOareaFan
Superstar
Yes....McDonalds moves more coffee on the days they give it away too.
Palma
Senior Member
and I have said it before, they will probably count those passengers when Mar figures are being released I bet
LNahid2000
Senior Member
Of course they'll count the passengers, just like they counted the passengers who rode for free during the BOGO promo.
crs1026
Superstar
A valid point.... just don't tell Heathrow Express.
I suspect that the acceptable wait time varies by time of day, because the clientele varies also. A great many business travellers come in in the early morning, and leave at close of business. Even without the 'premium' market focus, this may be UPE's best market. For these folks, time is everything. In my experience, people with a late afternoon/early evening flight get twitchy in business meetings by about 3:00 PM. Getting into the business district promptly in the morning matters greatly, too - especially if you are heading to a meeting with clients or the brass at head office. UPE with guaranteed arrival downtown is far less stressful than grabbing a limo with the uncertainty of how the roads are moving on that particular day. At these times, walk-on-and-go is good marketing.
Mid-day, I suspect there is less minute-to-minute pressure on trip times. A 20-minute headway isn't all that much more of a wait than 15 minutes (unless you have a meeting or need office time at the other end). If you assume that travellers arrive at random intervals, the average wait will be 10 mins instead of 7.5 mins. Only a quarter of passengers will face a wait that is certain to be longer than with a 15 minute headway.
Late evening is the most time sensitive. I find it's the time of day when people just want to get to their place of rest and will pay accordingly. Waits at the airport for transportation are excrutiating. There is the most anxiety about whether public transit will be safe or hassle free, especially if it doesn't drop you right at the door. (Super Shuttle into an American city after an evening flight can be cheap but hair-raising). Heathrow Express doesn't even try to capture this market....they run 30 mins after 9:30 PM. It may well be pointless to offer more than token service here in Toronto either.
I don't profess to know what the right balance, but I think it has to be considered and some experimentation is desirable. It's an easy thing to correct after a few months.
- Paul
TOareaFan
Superstar
I think as the value of time varies so should the price of it.......so I would look more at adjusting pricing by time of day before I adjusted the schedule/frequency....just my opinion but i also get that some people have already expressed confusion over two price points (cash v Presto) so compounding that with time of day variances may be worse.
crs1026
Superstar
I agree. This is one of those theory-versus-practical impact conundrums. For now, a single uniform fare is probably all the potential riders can process. Maybe a weekend fare - or 20 minute weekend service - could be tried.
- Paul
LNahid2000
Senior Member
Using the UP Express right now to commute to Brampton...so many damn kids and strollers everywhere. No lineups though...I got there at 11:58 and got on the 12pm train.
dowlingm
Senior Member
PM peak is going to be the biggest pricing/capacity issue, I think. Lots of people with overnight flights to Europe with baggage vs commuters.
