Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

Ya, Vancouverites seem to have a true hatred of Toronto and what it represents, it's very childish.

You must remember that this is the province that had "Best Place on Earth" as it's motto on it's licence plate and people believe it. Of course Vancouverites have never been east of Calgary. Far less than half of all native BC have ever been or show any interest in visiting the rest of the country. Vancouverites are fixated on getting on ever ranking known to man so they can prove to themselves how wonderful they are. They feel better when talking other places down.

They bitch about Toronto because it seems to get all the attention and it reinforces what a rather small and insignificant city they really are. They think {or at least think} that Torontonians are over whelmed with jealousy not realizing that Torontonians and Montrealers have all heard of Vancouver but just can't remember what street it's on.

A very insecure and parochial little city.
 
This is hilarious:

“Now the question isn’t whether the demand will fill the capacity, but how quickly we can fill capacity to meet the demand such as that which exists on the Broadway Corridor,” Reimer added. “Since opening in August 2009, the Canada Line has consistently exceeded all targets… [and] makes Toronto jealous, contributes to our economy and the region’s reputation as a desirable place to live and work.”

Bwahahahah. Really, one of your objectives with this transit line was to make Toronto jealous? This is apparently a Vancouver City Councillor. Wow.. such insecurity.
 
Really, one of your objectives with this transit line was to make Toronto jealous? This is apparently a Vancouver City Councillor. Wow.. such insecurity.
Not sure what we are supposed to be so jealous of. That they undersized the line capacity in the first place, creating a massive long-term problem, or that their population is much lower, and car usage higher, which means they don't need as much transit.
 
In my short lifetime, Vancouverites, who for some unknown reason possess an undying hatred of Toronto, have made the following ill-informed generalizations about Toronto: "dirty", "gross", "too much crime", "pollution", "no mountains", "too flat." And then I reminded every one of them about East Hastings Street and they shut up.
 
And then I reminded every one of them about East Hastings Street and they shut up.
Good grief, I walked down there one evening in error.

I've never seen anything that bad in any US city, let alone Toronto. I really wonder what is wrong with people in Vancouver to let people live in such conditions. Not believing how bad it was, I drove through again a couple of years later ... still there.
 
Oh ... hmm, 200 million would be about 650,000 a day ...and apparently their daily ridership is about 135,000 a day on Wikipedia. So 200 million all-time makes more sense. Hmm, not as impressive - a bit more than double their 99 B-line bus.

And only 135,000 a day compared to the estimated 170,000 a day on the Eglinton line - which doesn't even go downtown! Not impressive at all.

As a Torontonian, apparently I'm supposed to be jealous of that. Never.
 
Ya, Vancouverites seem to have a true hatred of Toronto and what it represents, it's very childish.

You must remember that this is the province that had "Best Place on Earth" as it's motto on it's licence plate and people believe it. Of course Vancouverites have never been east of Calgary. Far less than half of all native BC have ever been or show any interest in visiting the rest of the country. Vancouverites are fixated on getting on ever ranking known to man so they can prove to themselves how wonderful they are. They feel better when talking other places down.

They bitch about Toronto because it seems to get all the attention and it reinforces what a rather small and insignificant city they really are. They think {or at least think} that Torontonians are over whelmed with jealousy not realizing that Torontonians and Montrealers have all heard of Vancouver but just can't remember what street it's on.

A very insecure and parochial little city.

Reminds me of Ayan from Vancouver, who came to troll the Toronto Parks thread and scoff at Toronto. Eventually he got banned. This hatred of Toronto is hard to comprehend. It's not just coming from Vancouver, but the whole country. I really don't get it. How come Americans don't hate NYC?
 
Of course Vancouverites have never been east of Calgary.

That's not strictly true, some of us move here and determine they much prefer Toronto. I'm a rare bird, a Vancouverite that really doesn't care much for where he was born.

That said, the transit system really is pretty good. There's a few things we could learn from there, like the B-Line buses and a payment system that doesn't involve tokens.
 
That said, the transit system really is pretty good. There's a few things we could learn from there, like the B-Line buses and a payment system that doesn't involve tokens.
The 99 B-Line service is quite impressive.

That said though, I've taken it when it's overcrowded, and there's been wheelchairs left behind at stops shouting at the driver because there's no space for them. And one who decided to load despite the driver refusing to lower the lamp (he was clearly in good shape, easily succeeded, and told the driver that he wasn't getting off, even if he couldn't dock his wheelchair!).
 
Yes, the BLine system in Vancouver is very good and was very inexpensive to implement. The city is light years ahead of where it was in terms of transit just a generation ago. Vancouver can certainly be proud of the amount of expansion in their transit system and giving transit top priority and it has the ability to actually implement their plans as opposed to Toronto which just talks and squabbles endlessly while nothing gets built. Vancouver has also done a very good job at focusing development at SkyTrain stations.

They love to talk down Calgary here but Calgary has higher per-capita ridership than Vancouver but Vancouverites refuse to believe it. Considering it's size, Calgary has the best transit system in the country and is very forward thinking in terms of setting aside land for future transit expansion.

As far as the Downtown Eastside, ya Vancouverites have an amazing ability to overlook it and when you bring it up they will refocus the conversation to "ya but look at those wonderful mountains" and they will tell you that every city in Canada has a similar area.

Vancouver is, by far, Canada's most economically, socially, and politically stratified city where everything west of Main Street completely controls the city's agenda. there is nothing else like it in the whole country, the polarization is grotesque in the extreme.

All this said it is true that Toronto has made a mess of it's 'transit" line to Pearson and it is completely inferior to the Canada Line in that the CL is part of the standard transit system and the trains arrive at YVR every 6 minutes.
 
As far as the Downtown Eastside, ya Vancouverites have an amazing ability to overlook it and when you bring it up they will refocus the conversation to "ya but look at those wonderful mountains" and they will tell you that every city in Canada has a similar area.
I can't say I've ever noticed an area like that in Toronto. I've wandered up Sherbourne at 2 am in the summer from King to Gerrard, and it's a bit sketchy, especially around Dundas, but tends to be people on their own stoops, two or there here and there. Nothing like the situation in Vancouver. I can't think of anything worse than that.

All this said it is true that Toronto has made a mess of it's 'transit" line to Pearson and it is completely inferior to the Canada Line in that the CL is part of the standard transit system and the trains arrive at YVR every 6 minutes.
That's better than I remember. Hmm, no, Vancouver Translink website says every 6-7 minutes at peak. Off-peak it drops as low as every 20 minutes, with the last train at 12:56 AM. Even early evening service is only once every 12 minutes. The frequency at Vancouver airport is much lower than original Skytrain line downtown, which is never worse than once every 5 minutes downtown.
 
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I am from BC/Vancouver. I was inculcated with the myth of the best place on earth. Anything east of the rockies seemed horrible in my mind (no mountains! Cold!).

Leftists hated Toronto's financial centre and business focus. Populists hated the financial sector. Conservatives blamed high taxes and social programs on Toronto. Toronto got too much attention and money (!) - no one can comprehend Toronto's population relative to BC (much less Ontario + Quebec). Basically all points on the cultural spectrum agreed that "the east" (read: Toronto) was the boogyman.

Then I moved here for grad school. I did miss the mountains. But I loved the U of T. I loved the diversity. I loved the massively more active cultural scene. I took to the avenues and have watched with glee as the "cool" areas of Toronto expanded east and west of downtown. I watched a massive building boom unfold with some great towers constructed and under construction.

However, Vancouver is better governed. I thought of leaving if Rob Ford - or Doug - got in. Translink is better than Metrolinx. Metro Vancouver is treated as the centrepiece of BC, as it should be. Politicians here score points putting Toronto down and starving it of funding - all while maintaining the myth that Toronto takes more than it deserves. Toronto's transit system is on the brink of collapse. The daily grind of subway closures is depressing. It almost never happens in Vancouver. If they can fund the Broadway line, the only other project I think Vancouver needs is a streetcar. Otherwise, it is a good system. Toronto's needs are massive (what, $20B just for transit? $1B TCHC, $1B water system, Toronto hydro, the pot-hole ridden streets, etc.) Vancouver's infrastructure is newer and doesn't need the kind of $ Toronto and Montreal do. When it came time to build the golden ears bridge or the port mann, they tolled it. Here we sold off the 407 (!!!) and can't agree on any tolls or any funding tools. It is enough to drive a person mad.

Despite the fact that the Downtown East side is an American-style poverty trap (San Fran's Tenderloin is the same or worse btw, south Chicago isn't all drug addicts and mental patients but it is horrible and worse than Vancouver imho), they are building lots of social housing (and the homeless come from all over Canada, which is why the new housing doesn't seem to make a dent in the problem). I think a new approach is needed, but the main problems were seeded when the Riverview mental facility was closed, unleashing patients who got no real care to transition from institutional. Now, they are talking of a new facility with a different ethos (probably learning from CAMH, which is a highlight of Toronto's social system. Still, the focus is on preserving the area and steeling it against gentrification, which I don't think is the best long term plan. It is certainly a huge shame and something all Canadians should want to put money into solving. Sadly that isn't the case.

I also think that Vancouver cares more about public space and design (even if it isn't top notch). I am not in love with Vancouverism, and I feel like I am in a resort town when I go back to visit my parents, who live in False Creek, but the landscaping and focus on waterfront parks is great. Torotonians seem to think that the lake is a cesspool, which I guess it might have been in the past, but that bothers me as the lake is so great. It is a general turning-away from the environment that bothers me: no usage of the awesome ravine system, no waterfront promenade (where are those bloody wave decks!!!), years and years to bring the city to the lake and as always a powerful voice against beautification (in this instance the Fords).

So I think that there are definitely a few things Toronto can learn from Vancouver. Probably we would be better to learn from Stockholm, Copenhagen and Oslo given our climate, but that is for another post. On the other hand, Toronto is the most interesting, dynamic and diverse city in the country and it needs to be seen for what it is: the main face of the country to the world. Its size puts it on another level entirely, and it is appropriate that Toronto's problems are glaring because of its complexity. If the country could grasp that and the importance of that, and we could get a federal and provincial government to pump in tons of cash, I would definitely not leave. However, the sometimes annoying optimism and belief that Vancouverites live in Arcadia is actually sometimes rather true - it is a stunningly, amazingly beautiful city. It is easy to love.

Vancouver is the person you fall for at first sight; Toronto is the one you take time to get to know - and marry (as long as it deals with its credit problems first) :)
 
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Toronto is the one you take time to get to know - and marry (as long as it deals with its credit problems first)
Hang on, doesn't Vancouver have a much higher debt level than Toronto? Montreal's is much higher, and I thought Vancouver's was too. Last I heard it was hitting $2 billion with a population of only 600,000 compared to Toronto's debt of $3.7 billion with a population of 2.6 million.
 
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Sorry, it was just a bit of a quip. "Credit problems" referred to the problem areas I identified, not actual debt: the TCHC's huge state of good repair deficit, water + sewer deficit, street repair deficit (Gardiner just being one highlight "debt"), hydro deficit, lack of money for just about anything vs. Vancouver which doesn't have those legacy issues because it has built transit over the last thirty years and it built its infrastructure later than Toronto. Toronto has been saddled with so many infrastructure deficits that I can't see how we will get out of it without huge amounts of money coming from other levels of government.

Basically, it is just hard for me to be in a city when I know its problems won't be addressed (as was of course the case under the Fords, and without new taxes, will inevitably be the case under Tory). Toronto's private sector and downtown are booming, but public investment is lacking - and how could it not be when the issues were simply ignored by a multitude of governments? It comes down to a question of optimism vs. pessimism, and which cultural force holds sway. In my experience, Toronto is more pessimistic. Which really hurts!
 
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