Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[JayBeeGooner]

Yeah.... I can't justify paying $20. I'd have to travel to Union, wait for the train, and spend 20 minutes. Traveling. The travel won't be much shorter than taking the TTC 192.

 

[nfitz]

Taking the subway + bus normally takes 60-70 minutes from downtown, shorter for those who live along the Bloor. The train takes 25, but you have to get to union first. so the real time saved is half an hour max. If the cost of the train is $15, it might be worth the extra cost, but if it is $25-35, which is more likely, I will pass.

I wish the BD line has some express train that doesn't stop every 500 meters (skipping Bay, Christy, Lansdown, High Park, Runnymede, old Mill and Royal York). It is not the distance but rather the frequent stops that slows it down.

What I've done to save 30 minutes in rush-hour is to take GO from Union to Kipling, and then take the Airport Rocket.

On one occasion I just missed it (got to the platform to see it vanishing in the distance). As the next train wasn't for 35 minutes, I went to the subway, and took it to Kipling. I was disappointed to find that the next GO Train passed my stopped subway train while we were stopped between Islington and Kipling. However, I now know that you can save 30 minutes on GO over the subway. And it only adds $4.77 to the trip instead of $20 to $30.

Unfortunately, this solution is fairly limited until there's full service on the GO Milton line. Perhaps one day there'll be an express airport bus from Mount Dennis GO on the Kitchener line - which will be getting full-day service much sooner.

The existence of Bay station is rather ridiculous.

I've heard various arguments about non-necessary TTC stations over the years. But I've never heard anyone mention Bay before! This station is very well used with over 33,000 riders a day. Most importantly, it has the 2 busiest subway stations in they city on either side (St. George and Yonge). You'd really want to push MORE people on to those other stations? Perhaps you could propose a lesser used station like Jane or Pape. (not).

 

[ksun]

I've heard various arguments about non-necessary TTC stations over the years. But I've never heard anyone mention Bay before! This station is very well used with over 33,000 riders a day. Most importantly, it has the 2 busiest subway stations in they city on either side (St. George and Yonge). You'd really want to push MORE people on to those other stations? Perhaps you could propose a lesser used station like Jane or Pape. (not).

I see your point but not convinced.
Bay is well used because of its central location but being less than 300 meters from Yonge, it is just too close. If crowding is an issue, Y/B and St George should be expanded. I have never seen a city that spends millions to build a subway station just because the nearby station 300 meters way risks being too crowded. The solution is to make that station larger, not to build a brand new station within easy walking distance.

I think the existence of Bay station was due to the plan of using lower bay to loop the Yonge/Univerity/Bloor line?

Being well used it not good enough. If you build another station between Bay and St George, or between College and Dundas, it will be well-used too, doesn't mean it justifies the cost.

I guess the Victoria stop on 501 might be the closest bus stop from the next one (90m) in the world, and the Bay station can claim the closest subway station spacing (280 meters?)

 

[TOareaFan]

What I've done to save 30 minutes in rush-hour is to take GO from Union to Kipling, and then take the Airport Rocket.

On one occasion I just missed it (got to the platform to see it vanishing in the distance). As the next train wasn't for 35 minutes, I went to the subway, and took it to Kipling. I was disappointed to find that the next GO Train passed my stopped subway train while we were stopped between Islington and Kipling. However, I now know that you can save 30 minutes on GO over the subway. And it only adds $4.77 to the trip instead of $20 to $30.

Unfortunately, this solution is fairly limited until there's full service on the GO Milton line. Perhaps one day there'll be an express airport bus from Mount Dennis GO on the Kitchener line - which will be getting full-day service much sooner.

Your use of GO is something I have long thought about and an feel an interim (perhaps even permanent alternative) solution to that middle of the road (no pun intended) route to the airport.

We already have the BD-Kipling-express bus to airport alternative priced at TTC fares. We will soon have the express to Pearson from Union at somewhere between $20-$30 (my bet is closer to $20 than $30 but we will see).

It has been an eternal frustration to me when you get on a westbound KW line train at Union and as the train pulls out of station the nice customer service announcer talks of all the bus connections available at Bramalea, Brampton, Mt. Pleasant etc and there is no extension via bus of that line from Malton to Pearson. GO could be running a service from Union to Pearson now via that route and have a GO bus meeting every train at Malton (in either direction) to take passengers off that line to the airport. It would be priced higher than TTC but would be faster, more comfortable and would fill that middle priced range (and would serve people coming from the west as well as people coming from east).

Yes it will be a more viable solution when all day service arrives on the line but even now it could provide a service since the trains now run in rush hour when traffic to/around the airport is at its worst.

 

[christiesplits]

Yeah.... I can't justify paying $20. I'd have to travel to Union, wait for the train, and spend 20 minutes. Traveling. The travel won't be much shorter than taking the TTC 192.

I truly believe the fare will hover near $30. I believe $20-22 is fair.

 

[TOareaFan]

I truly believe the fare will hover near $30. I believe $20-22 is fair.

My bet is $22. $20 base fare plus the GTAA's surcharge. UPe has never come out and said anything about their fare structure other than "it's under study" and "will be out soon" but when pressed they do acknowledge that similar services in other cities are in the $20 - $30 range.....an all in $22 lets them present a justified fare that is at the low end of comparable range.

 

[nfitz]

I see your point but not convinced.
Bay is well used because of its central location but being less than 300 meters from Yonge, it is just too close. If crowding is an issue, Y/B and St George should be expanded. I have never seen a city that spends millions to build a subway station just because the nearby station 300 meters way risks being too crowded. The solution is to make that station larger, not to build a brand new station within easy walking distance.

I think the existence of Bay station was due to the plan of using lower bay to loop the Yonge/Univerity/Bloor line?

If you didn't have Bay, there would be 900 metres from Yonge to St. George stations, and that's too far.

Clearly the demand exists at Bay.

While the existence of Bay isn't strictly related to the loop, it's precise location is certainly influenced by it.

Let's look at this way. Your going to have a stop at Spadina, and another at Yonge. That's about 1,400 metres. So you'd either have 2 stop in between (700 metre average spacing) or 2 stops (467 metre average spacing).

I suppose if the loop hadn't have existed (no line on University) you'd likely have had a stop at Avenue Road. But then you still need something for the 800 metres between Spadina and Avenue Road, particularly given that the heart of the UT campus (along Bloor at least). Your lucky there aren't stops at St. George, Avenue Road AND Bay!

I guess the Victoria stop on 501 might be the closest bus stop from the next one (90m) in the world.

Uh no. It's not even close. There are some bus and streetcar routes in Toronto with a stop at both side of a busy intersection (yes, I think these would go). Surely, we are not the ONLY city on the planet EVER to do that!

 

[ksun]

It has been an eternal frustration to me when you get on a westbound KW line train at Union and as the train pulls out of station the nice customer service announcer talks of all the bus connections available at Bramalea, Brampton, Mt. Pleasant etc and there is no extension via bus of that line from Malton to Pearson. GO could be running a service from Union to Pearson now via that route and have a GO bus meeting every train at Malton (in either direction) to take passengers off that line to the airport. It would be priced higher than TTC but would be faster, more comfortable and would fill that middle priced range (and would serve people coming from the west as well as people coming from east).

I just took a look at the map and wow, I never knew a Go station is so close to Pearson (5KM only!) yet they don't have any bus service from Malton station to Pearson, a barely 10 minutes drive????
Is there plan to make the Malton line all day service any time soon? The private sector may quickly realize the opportunity and make investment to link the station and YYZ making the expensive UPX almost completely redundant.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I think the UPX will be too expensive for me to consider using.

In the future I imagine that I'll take the GO Kitchener line from downtown to the Finch West LRT or Eglinton Line and then continue to the airport. This will likely be faster than UPX given that the Kitchener line trains are more frequent than UPX (>15 min).

 

[rbt]

I see your point but not convinced.
Bay is well used because of its central location but being less than 300 meters from Yonge, it is just too close. If crowding is an issue, Y/B and St George should be expanded. I have never seen a city that spends millions to build a subway station just because the nearby station 300 meters way risks being too crowded. The solution is to make that station larger, not to build a brand new station within easy walking distance.

Just so I understand, you are proposing to save perhaps $1M per year on Bay station staff/maintenance through the creation of a $1.5B expansion of Y/B and St. George stations; which itself would need to be maintained?

 

[TOareaFan]

I just took a look at the map and wow, I never knew a Go station is so close to Pearson (5KM only!) yet they don't have any bus service from Malton station to Pearson, a barely 10 minutes drive????

GO serves the airport by buses from York Mills/Yorkdale...but not from Malton GO station. I would imagine it would be possible (if difficult) to incorporate Malton into those bus routes but a simple train extension bus from Malton to the Airport would be easy....but currently not done.

Is there plan to make the Malton line all day service any time soon? The private sector may quickly realize the opportunity and make investment to link the station and YYZ making the expensive UPX almost completely redundant.

Just to be clear...there is no Malton line.....there is a Malton station on the KW line. As for your question, it depends who you ask. If you ask the government, they will tell you that this line (as with all GO rail lines) will be AD2W 7 days a week with 15 minute frequencies within 10 years. As for current plans, ML plan to introduce some additional service (Monday to Friday only) sometime in 2015 upon the completion of the GTS.

Even if there was frequent service on the KW line along with some kind of link to the airport (either buses extensions or an improved/extended airport people mover out to the station) at Malton....the notion that it would render the UPe reduntant is silly. A hybrid GO option would provide a quicker route (for some) than the TTC and would be priced accordingly......but it would not be express, would require some sort of vehicle change/transfer and would be slower than the UPe.

In the scenario where there was a $3 TTC option, a +/- $7 GO option and a +/- $25 UPe option, each would find their audience and that is just fine (with me anyway).

 

[ksun]

Just so I understand, you are proposing to save perhaps $1M per year on Bay station staff/maintenance through the creation of a $1.5B expansion of Y/B and St. George stations; which itself would need to be maintained?

No, I meant that the Bay station shouldn't have been built as it is too close to Y/B.
Now it is there, of course it makes no sense to leave it abandoned.

 

[nfitz]

I just took a look at the map and wow, I never knew a Go station is so close to Pearson (5KM only!)

I'd have thought the name "Malton" would have been a dead giveway!

5? It's only 2.5 km to Terminal 2. And it's about 300 metres from the end of the platform to the corner of the airport property (at Airport Road and Derry).

yet they don't have any bus service from Malton station to Pearson, a barely 10 minutes drive????

There are buses that serve Terminal 1 and 3, that go past the GO station. TTC 52 Lawrence West. Miway 7 Airport. Not to mention GO Transit route 34 (which also goes right into the bus loop at Bramalea GO).

A direct connection however would be a good idea.

Is there plan to make the Malton line all day service any time soon?

Haven't they promised increased service by 2016, at least for weekdays?

 

[rbt]

No, I meant that the Bay station shouldn't have been built as it is too close to Y/B.

Maybe. The assumption that riders would use Lower Bay to access the University line (and the track connection between them) caused a whole lot of weird placements. Bay, St. George, and Museum could probably all have been a single station at Bloor and Avenue Road, now connected to the Bloor PATH. Hindsight is a wonderful thing....

 

[nfitz]

Maybe. The assumption that riders would use Lower Bay to access the University line (and the track connection between them) caused a whole lot of weird placements. Bay, St. George, and Museum could probably all have been a single station at Bloor and Avenue Road, now connected to the Bloor PATH. Hindsight is a wonderful thing....

Which would have left an 800 metre gap between Spadina and Avenue, in a very busy spot. This was wider than was generally used on this line, in much lower density areas.