Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[gweed123]

One thing that needs to be remembered is that the ARL will only be a fraction of the total service on the line once it is electrified. I don't think Weston warrants an ARL stop, but it will certainly warrant a GO REX stop once that service is implemented. I get the impression that many Westonites believe that the ARL and current level GO service are all that will be operating on that corridor. The reality is, however, that the ARL will only be a small fraction of the total rail service on that line.

 

[ShonTron]

One thing that needs to be remembered is that the ARL will only be a fraction of the total service on the line once it is electrified. I don't think Weston warrants an ARL stop, but it will certainly warrant a GO REX stop once that service is implemented. I get the impression that many Westonites believe that the ARL and current level GO service are all that will be operating on that corridor. The reality is, however, that the ARL will only be a small fraction of the total rail service on that line.

I'd like to believe that. But according to the Georgetown South project website that "only a fraction" is actually 140/185.

Here's what GO Transit's GTS page shows:
http://www.gotransit.com/gts/en/faqs/default.aspx

------------------Present--- 2015
Daily GO Trains ---- 14 ---Up to 29
Airport shuttle------ 0 ----140
Via and CN-------- 10----16
Total---------------24--- 185

This is what GO has been planning from the start. So there might be more express peak trains (as well as converting existing trains to locals), and maybe some shoulder-peak trains, but not even close to present Lakeshore Line levels. Now, with VIA cutting back thanks to Harper pulling subsidies, the CN/VIA number will change somewhat. The chart has been updated to read Kitchener Line, so nothing's changed there.

There will be 3 or 4 trains an hour, each way, 18-20 hours a day, on the ARL premium line. There may be only 3 or 4 extra GO trains total in each direction that Westonites could board (presuming that GO runs express trains making last stop in Brampton or Bramalea before Union).

Maybe further down the line all that work could be of actual benefit to Westonites, but not in 2015.

 

[gweed123]

I'd like to believe that. But according to the Georgetown South project website that "only a fraction" is actually 140/185.

Here's what GO Transit's GTS page shows:
http://www.gotransit.com/gts/en/faqs/default.aspx

------------------Present--- 2015
Daily GO Trains ---- 14 ---Up to 29
Airport shuttle------ 0 ----140
Via and CN-------- 10----16
Total---------------24--- 185

This is what GO has been planning from the start. So there might be more express peak trains (as well as converting existing trains to locals), and maybe some shoulder-peak trains, but not even close to present Lakeshore Line levels. Now, with VIA cutting back thanks to Harper pulling subsidies, the CN/VIA number will change somewhat. The chart has been updated to read Kitchener Line, so nothing's changed there.

There will be 3 or 4 trains an hour, each way, 18-20 hours a day, on the ARL premium line. There may be only 3 or 4 extra GO trains total in each direction that Westonites could board (presuming that GO runs express trains making last stop in Brampton or Bramalea before Union).

Maybe further down the line all that work could be of actual benefit to Westonites, but not in 2015.

I was speaking beyond 2015, once the electrification of the line is complete, and presumably it's running at least 30 min service throughout the day. Although ideally I'd like to see 15 min frequency for the full line, and 15 min frequencies within Toronto, for a combined frequency of 7.5 mins.

Before electrification, yes it will be slanted heavily towards the ARL, but afterwards I'm hoping that the line will be running at near subway-like frequencies when everything is factored in.

SIDE NOTE: When electrification is complete, I'd like to see the ARL as a premium service disappear. I don't think it will be very profitable, and I'd like to see the ARL route simply become the 'local' branch of the Brampton-Markham GO REX, terminating at Pearson. I think that type of service would be far greater than a premium service, and would be a benefit to lot more people.

 

[drum118]

I am in Stockholm at this time and they have express service to the airport every 15 minutes and its a 20 minute ride.

The cost for 50 trips is sek9800, 25 is 5200 and 10 trip is 2600. That about $1,452, $771, $385 Can. Looking at about $38 a trip each way. The 3 train I saw, all had empty seats around 5pm with 2 inbound and one outbound.

The train is a 4 car articulated with cabs at both ends. I would say the train holds no more than 200 seated riders considering the double deck cars only seat 86 and this is only a single level.

Its an upscale train with a bar in one of the cars. Seats are upscale, but not the top of the line. There is provision to store your luggage overhead or in an area setup for it and only 2 cars have the storage area.

The cars are setup for strollers and wheelchairs also.

The trains in Madrid carry far more riders using 3 or and 8 double deck cars. Same for Paris and Barcelona.

With VIA cutting 2 trains, that's an lost of 4 trains a day for the line.

As for final number for 2015, we will have to wait to see who is in power come 2014 and what their plans are for funding transit. Metrolinx can say one thing now, but if the funding is not there, that's a different story.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Maybe further down the line all that work could be of actual benefit to Westonites, but not in 2015.

If the same Westonites would have put as much piss and energy demanding that GO run all day service along the Georgetown line as they do to opposing a diesel train to the airport, I'm sure they would have gotten something by now. Plus, we would all be better off, rather than worse off, for all their efforts.

 

[Jaye101]

Clean Train Coalition sues Metrolinx
Posted on August 8, 2012 by Adam Norman


The Clean Train Coalition has sued Metrolinx in an effort to stop the diesel Air Rail Link. In the application to the courts, the coalition says that Metrolinx was acting to meet an artificial deadline—the Pan Am Games—and must reconsider its decision since diesel trains would conflict with Metrolinx’s mandate to support a high quality of life with a long-term vision.

The CTC wants Metrolinx to analyze electrification, reconsider the diesel trains “unfettered by any schedule related to the 2015 Games” and to consider the World Health Organization’s classification of diesel as a carcinogen.

In the punchiest two paragraphs of the otherwise dry application, the CTC says,

Over 300,000 people live within 450 metres of the ARL corridor and the Project impacts 37 schools, 40 child care centres, and four long term care facilities. Metrolinx’s recommendation to pursue electrification was based on analyses showing electric trains are quieter, faster and cleaner than diesel trains. Metrolinx concluded EMUs would deliver journey-time savings, health benefits, and important operating and maintenance costs savings compared to DMUs. Metrolinx concluded that the cumulative impact of these benefits, and the increase in benefits as service expands, builds the case to pursue electrification now in the longterm interest of Ontario citizens.

Notwithstanding Metrolinx’s recommendation to electrify the ARL, the Metrolinx Board of Directors voted on February 28, 2011, to approve the purchase of up to 18 DMUs from a Japanese company, Sumitomo Corporation, for delivery starting in 2013.

http://www.cleantrain.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/2012.08.02-Metrolinx-JR-Stamped.pdf
http://www.westonweb.ca/

 

[Jaye101]

Diesel exhaust fumes cause lung cancer, WHO says

By Kate Kelland

LONDON | Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:02pm EDT

(Reuters) - Diesel engine fumes can cause lung cancer and belong in the same potentially deadly category as asbestos, arsenic and mustard gas, World Health Organisation (WHO) experts said on Tuesday.

In an announcement that caused concern in the auto industry, the France-based International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), part of the WHO, reclassified diesel exhausts from its group 2A of probable carcinogens to its group 1 of substances that have definite links to cancer.

The experts, who said their decision was unanimous and based on "compelling" scientific evidence, urged people worldwide to reduce their exposure to diesel fumes as much as possible.

"The working group found that diesel exhaust is a cause of lung cancer and also noted a positive association with an increased risk of bladder cancer," IARC said in a statement.

The decision was the result of a week-long meeting of independent experts who assessed the latest scientific evidence on the cancer-causing potential of diesel and gasoline exhausts.

It puts diesel exhaust fumes in the same risk category as a number of other noxious substances including asbestos, arsenic, mustard gas, alcohol and tobacco.

Christopher Portier, chairman of the IARC working group, said the group's conclusion "was unanimous, that diesel engine exhaust causes lung cancer in humans".

"Given the additional health impacts from diesel particulates, exposure to this mixture of chemicals should be reduced worldwide," he said in a statement.

PUBLIC HEALTH ISSUE

Diesel cars are mainly popular in western Europe, where tax advantages have boosted technological advances and demand.

Outside of Europe and India, diesel engines are almost entirely confined to commercial vehicles - mostly because of the fuel's greater efficiency. German carmakers are trying to raise awareness of the fuel in the United States, where the long distances travelled on highways suit diesel engines.

The European Automobile Manufacturers' Association said it was surprised by the WHO announcement and the industry would "have to study the findings in all their details".

"The latest diesel technology is really very clean," said spokeswoman Sigrid de Vries, adding the industry had been working on technologies to address health concerns.

Sean McAlinden, an analyst with the Center for Automotive Research in Michigan, said about 2 to 2.5 percent of light vehicles in the United States had diesel engines, but that was expected to rise to 8.5 percent by 2020.

IARC said large populations all over the world are exposed to diesel exhaust every day.

"People are exposed not only to motor vehicle exhausts but also to exhausts from other diesel engines...(such as diesel trains and ships) and from power generators," it said.

IARC's director Christopher Wild said that against this background, Tuesday's conclusion "sends a strong signal that public health action is warranted".

"This emphasis is needed globally, including among the more vulnerable populations in developing countries where new technology and protective measures may otherwise take many years to be adopted," he said in a statement.

DIESEL HAS CLEANED UP

For about 20 years, diesel engine exhaust was defined by IARC as probably carcinogenic to humans - group 2A - but an IARC advisory group has repeatedly recommended diesel engine exhaust as a high priority for re-evaluation since 1998.

The auto industry had argued diesel fumes should be given a less high-risk rating to reflect tighter emissions standards.

Reacting to the decision, Allen Schaeffer, executive director of the Washington-based Diesel Technology Forum said diesel engine and equipment makers, fuel refiners and emissions control technology makers have invested billions of dollars in research into technologies and strategies to reduce emissions.

The health charity Cancer Research UK welcomed the IARC move and said the evidence of harmful health effects of diesel had been accumulating for many years. But it added that "the overall number of lung cancers caused by diesel fumes is likely to be a fraction of those caused by smoking tobacco."

Cancer killed 7.6 million people worldwide in 2008, the most recent year for which the WHO has full data. Lung cancer was the most deadly type, accounting for 18 percent of cancer deaths.

IARC said it had considered recent advances in diesel technology which had cut levels of particulates and chemicals in exhaust fumes, particularly in developed economies, but said it was not yet clear how these might translate into health effects.

"Research into this question is needed," it said. "In addition, existing fuels and vehicles without these modifications will take many years to be replaced, particularly in less developed countries, where regulatory measures are currently also less stringent."

IARC said gasoline exhaust fumes should be classified as "probably carcinogenic to humans", a finding that was unchanged from its previous assessment in 1989.

(Additional reporting by Christiaan Hetzner in Frankfurt, Laurence Frost in Paris and Bernie Woodall in Detroit.; Editing by Andrew Heavens and Roger Atwood)

 

[CapitalSeven]

These trains will not be much diffeent that the O-Train in Ottawa, which runs every 15 minutes in each direction. Virtually no one complains about the noise or pollution. Recently it was announced that service will be increased to 8 minutes. While it's disappointing insofar as it suggests conversion to LRT is at least 10 years off, virtually the only reaction was, Good, better service.

 

[gweed123]

These trains will not be much diffeent that the O-Train in Ottawa, which runs every 15 minutes in each direction. Virtually no one complains about the noise or pollution. Recently it was announced that service will be increased to 8 minutes. While it's disappointing insofar as it suggests conversion to LRT is at least 10 years off, virtually the only reaction was, Good, better service.

Yeah, I don't think Ottawa had much negative reaction to the service boost, or even to the O-Train in general. The main criticism of the O-Train when it first started in 2001 was that it didn't extend far enough. I don't recall any community opposition to the project itself.

 

[Grimace]

1) As someone who has been watching this project since the beginning in 2002, I'm going to call bullshit. They certainly messed up with the way that they handled West Toronto Junction, but have bent over backwards for the community of Weston. Making bigger and bigger sound walls, covering up the trench, turning Weston into an ARL stop, spending more and more on "beautifying" the corridor, spending millions on making equipment "Tier 4" complaint when it doesn't need to be....and those are only the things I can think of off of the top of my head. I'm sure that there are lots more.

I was primarily referring to West Toronto Junction, which I am close to. I actually don't agree with the Weston ARL station. It is true that there were accommodations made for Weston, some which may make sense and some which may not.

2) Just like everything else, it ultimately comes down to money, doesn't it?

It comes down to money as to whether and when it happens, but even with money the electrification will take more than a few years. The poster I was responding to was suggesting that electrification would be done in a few years, which is unlikely and sheer speculation.

3) There is an immediate need for expansion of the capacity on the line. It's false to claim that if there was no ARL that the construction wouldn't have occurred - GO simply couldn't jam more trains onto the existing tracks. Have you not noticed the work that has gone on north of the 427?

My comment had nothing to do with the rest of the corridor, it was solely in respect of the ARL. I never claimed construction would not have occurred, and the ARL will be what has the main impact on the adjacent neighbourhoods from an operational standpoint.

You've never heard an electric train, have you? They are almost as loud as a diesel, as most of the noise is NOT the diesel engine. It is ancillaries such as air compressors, radiator fans, traction motors and gearboxes, and even the wheels on the rails - all things that exist regardless of the power source.

I do not claim to be an expert, though I believe electric trains are generally quieter and my understanding was that the sound barriers were to be constructed due to the use of diesel trains. Maybe that is CTC propaganda. If I am wrong, then I stand corrected.

As for pricing, since Metrolinx has never said boo about what the cost to ride will be (beyond a very vague range), it's a bit premature to say things like "...it will cost more than a taxi...", don't you think?

Years ago when this was SNC's show, they were saying $20 each way. Metrolinx talks about cost recovery. I said it would cost more than a taxi if you're travelling in a pair, meaning it will be about half the price of a taxi (i.e., about $30 or more). I don't think it is premature to say that.

 

[Jaye101]

These trains will not be much diffeent that the O-Train in Ottawa, which runs every 15 minutes in each direction. Virtually no one complains about the noise or pollution. Recently it was announced that service will be increased to 8 minutes. While it's disappointing insofar as it suggests conversion to LRT is at least 10 years off, virtually the only reaction was, Good, better service.

I live in the neighbourhood of Carleton Village that lies between the Barrie and Kitchener corridors. The smell really moves through the neighbourhood.

3 People (that I know of) including an immediate family member have died of lung cancer on my block (less than a hundred meters) in the last year. You can say it's a coincidence, or just a combination of environmental factors. However, with this information from the World Health Organization, it raises questions.

Massive intensification is happening within meters of these hydro corridors and it seems irresponsible both politically and fiscally to put off an inevitable expense that grows with each passing year. Not to mention the health concerns, that we still do not fully understand.

The neighbourhoods of South Core, City Place, Liberty Village, Parkdale, Junction are all going to suffer with poor air quality that will have effects unknown for many years despite how clean they claim the vehicles are. It just seems irresponsible to put off the most important and most cost effective investment in transit within the GTA.

 

[TOareaFan]

I'd like to believe that. But according to the Georgetown South project website that "only a fraction" is actually 140/185.

Here's what GO Transit's GTS page shows:
http://www.gotransit.com/gts/en/faqs/default.aspx

------------------Present--- 2015
Daily GO Trains ---- 14 ---Up to 29
Airport shuttle------ 0 ----140
Via and CN-------- 10----16
Total---------------24--- 185

This is what GO has been planning from the start.

In the early days of this project I used to argue against people who characterised it as "spending $1billion of public money for a link to the airport"......I would counter with "the spend is for the whole line not just ARL. In 2015 when you see all day service on this busy/populated corridor you will feel silly for thinking this way".

Metrolinx, has stated they have no plans for all day service and the bolded part (above) does not even "promise" a single new train. Bizarrely, instead, it sets an upper limit on the number of new trains! It says, "we don't know how many GO Trains there will be. It could be the same 14.....it could be less....it could be more.....but not more than 29!". Interestingly, just restoring what was there before uses up a fair bit of the gap between 14 and 29!

$1billion for that?

It is I that feel silly now and I apologize to those I argued with.

 

[rbt]

$1billion for that?

Welcome to the world of annual budgets. The issue is, it isn't under Metrolinx's control until the service runs at a profit. You are right though, Metrolinx is not agressive (overspend then threaten to shut-down everything in month 10 if the government doesn't top-up the gap). We've seen that work with agencies in the United States.

Metrolinx does not have independent financial control and the government decides what to give them on an annual basis. That amount grows and shrinks depending on government revenue for the year. Sometimes the government will even kick in a billion dollars for capital while demanding Metrolinx tighten operations by a few million. Complete lack of transparency at Metrolinx doesn't help their cause though.

TTC has the same problem; they can't make any promises about service levels more than about 6 months out.


The nice thing is the $1B was the expensive part. Adding service is something the next Ontario Government can do with only a few million and Metrolinx can likely do on their own given enough years to grow ridership. Vote wisely.

 

[Automation Gallery]

The neighbourhoods of South Core, City Place, Liberty Village, Parkdale, Junction are all going to suffer with poor air quality that will have effects unknown for many years despite how clean they claim the vehicles are. It just seems irresponsible to put off the most important and most cost effective investment in transit within the GTA.

Yeah strange, it also seems that a lot of people on this thread dont give a hoot about health issues and just want this built.

 

[nfitz]

Yeah strange, it also seems that a lot of people on this thread dont give a hoot about health issues and just want this built.

Perhaps because it would be a benefit to health issues, to get more people off the roads in their polluting cars, and into trains. Even a non-clean diesel train which takes hundreds of cars off the road, produces less emissions than those cars.

I live near, and downwind the Lakeshore East/Stouffville corridor, which currently carries far more trains than the Barrie/Kitchener corridor combined. I've been pushing GO hard to increase service. To try and discourage train use is simply NIMBYism, and will lead to more cancers and deaths. I can't even begin to comprehend the mindset of those who are opposing this project. I can only assume that ignorance are paranoia are factors.