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TTC: An Airport LRT?

Everyone: An LRT line would be a good idea for Pearson Airport service-provided it is a line providing reasonably rapid service-not a streetcar line.
Better yet would be GO service direct to YYZ or connecting nearby.
For people using YYZ it would have to be somewhat convenient without too many intermediate stops. As mentioned workers would be prime users of a YYZ link. LI MIKE
 
Councillor Mihevc has been talking about this for a long time. His idea is to extend the St. Clair streetcar further west, then up to Eglinton, and then west along Eglinton to the airport. Shouldn't take much longer than an hour and a half from downtown.
 
I saw that proposal and though about how stupid it was. At least Transit City's Eglinton-Crosstown line is a worthwhile local service that will serve the airport better than a line from St. Clair, but the Eglinton LRT hook-up with Pearson makes a hell of a lot of sense. It would pass near the Airport Corporate Centre (meeting with Mississauga's busway which I still don't agree with, but resigned to) and be the logical terminal of a regular route with a good trip generator at one end.

A real regional rail hook-up (one that doesn't extend a middle finger to Weston and Mount Dennis residents) is the way the downtown-Pearson market could be served, and I don't think the point of an LRT line to the airport is to be the sole and only airport rail link, so it is ridiculous to criticise this idea as the ARL "solution" just as it is ridiculous to promote this "solution" as the alternative to the bad Blue 22 plan (which I'd like to doubt Mihevc or Giambrone are thinking).
 
A subway would be the best option I think, it would add a new route plus more stops in the city, but it does cost a lot of money and the city don't got money to spend apprently.

$20 a ride isn't bad considering the bus from downtown cost $15 I think. The express airport bus that is.

I would actually like having the Blue 22 built, and $20 is not bad in comparison to Taxi and airport bus. In addition, by building a link from Union to Pearson -- if they organized it right -- it would make it easier to go from Downtown Toronto to your destination. By organization, I mean offering check-in at the train station (both air and luggage), boarding the train to the airport -- which would only leave the necessity to go through security at the airport.
 
Ride the King or Queen car at rush hour, then say that the current setup is good. I dare you.
Or the Dundas car, or the Carlton car...

I'm going to Prague in a month, a city less than half the size of Toronto in a country not as rich as Canada, and even it has 3 subway lines in its centre compared to Toronto's two.

"An electric train with 10 or 12 stops and a reasonable price would be packed all the time," he said.
This would be ideal IMO. I don't know why the TTC doesn't get on board. Though to be fair, an Eglinton LRT wouldn't be a terrible option. Eglinton west of Weston Rd is practically an expressway with a huge ROW where a train could be totally separated from the roadway. But it would be more expensive (tunnels east of Weston Rd) and less direct, plus riders would have to transfer to get downtown (yeah I know only 17% or whatever actually go downtown, but it's still the biggest single destination). And it totally bypasses Weston itself. Using the Weston sub would be faster, cheaper, and just as good for local transit.

I actually think the EA is a good thing - it might just be what it takes to get regional rail going in Toronto. Looks like the TTC doesn't have a clue about about it.
 
I go to the airport so infrequently, but one of the downsides is how long it takes. Fight traffic to get there, go through security, board the plane - it's just not worth it if you are going somewhere like Ottawa or Montreal. The train is much better.
If you're going to Ottawa or Montreal (or Halifax) I'd go Porter. Save the $80-$100 round trip limo ride or hours of bus/subway hassle and fly right from downtown.
 
Downtown to downtown, the train between Toronto and Montreal is ideal. Porter is obviously quicker, but if getting in from Dorval (erm, Trudeau) is still a pain. The 5 o'clock train is quick and pleasant, and the entire time is useful (i.e. laptop, until the power runs out if you're in economy) rather than spent in endless queues. The catch for the train is that there aren't very many every day, compared with Air Canada's flights every hour, and some of the trains are nearly 6 hour long nightmares. They're also unfortunately extremely prone to delay.
 
This would be ideal IMO. I don't know why the TTC doesn't get on board. Though to be fair, an Eglinton LRT wouldn't be a terrible option. Eglinton west of Weston Rd is practically an expressway with a huge ROW where a train could be totally separated from the roadway. But it would be more expensive (tunnels east of Weston Rd) and less direct, plus riders would have to transfer to get downtown (yeah I know only 17% or whatever actually go downtown, but it's still the biggest single destination). And it totally bypasses Weston itself. Using the Weston sub would be faster, cheaper, and just as good for local transit.
Somehow, I can picture the Eglinton LRT as an alibi for an "expressway via subterfuge", i.e. an Allen Road "median" arrangement, and presto, we have an approximation of the dreaded Eglinton Expressway that Sam Cass projected back in the day...
 
DR. GRIDLOCK
The long wait for an airport train that never arrives

JEFF GRAY

October 29, 2007

In civilized cities, you can take a train to the airport. In Toronto, you are forced into a $50 cab ride, or an epic journey on the subway out to catch the bus from Kipling Station, a fate one does not wish on one's worst enemy - whom one offers instead to drive to the airport, chatting politely the entire 45 minutes. Why is this so?

First of all, blame history. Toronto Pearson International Airport and the city it serves came of age in the era of the car. YYZ is perfectly located at the dizzying intersection of countless lanes of expressways. Cars were the future, and trains were for the history books, the Last Spike and all that.

Fair enough. But you don't have to be London - where the Piccadilly Line takes you to and from Heathrow, if you can't afford the express train - to ride the rails to the airport.

In Chicago, to which Toronto is often compared, the subway trundles out to O'Hare, stopping along the way to pick up young people in McDonald's uniforms, airport security tags hanging around their necks, as well as harried business travellers.

It would be nice to have a choice. What happens as Toronto continues to grow and so many cars clog all those lovely expressways to Pearson (and elsewhere) that we all start missing flights? Some 30 million people a year flow through Pearson, with just 1 per cent of those trips including public transit. If Toronto wants to pull some cars off the roads to ease congestion and reduce greenhouse-gas emissions - leave aside the ecological destruction caused by airplanes - isn't a train to the airport an obvious fix?

There are, in fact, two plans - little more than lines on maps at the moment - that would bring rail vehicles at least within spitting range of Pearson. Which is a good thing, since they have already built a train station there, waiting for a train that never comes.

Plan No. 1 is the infamous "Blue 22," a hastily announced private-public partnership with SNC-Lavalin to operate a high-speed express train from Union Station to Pearson. It is supposed to take just 22 minutes - hence the name - and cost $20. After the federal Liberals proclaimed it in 2003, the project quickly became mired in the approvals process as people who lived along the route in the Weston area objected to trains they could not ride whipping through their community. It remains mired.

David Collenette, the former Liberal federal transport minister who spearheaded the project, said it would be up and running by 2008, which turned out to be a little optimistic. It could be 2012 before anything is completed, if ever.

With federal cash, it is GO Transit that is spearheading the process to get more tracks laid in the Georgetown corridor where Blue 22 would go, so GO can expand its service as well. It is a big project: All told, including GO improvements, the price tag could come close to $500-million.

Some residents, and at last check, the province, seem to hope for a new plan to emerge that would allow for a train that stops in Weston and elsewhere along the way, instead of catering to business travellers coming out of Union Station. That might force SNC-Lavalin to back away, or to demand some sort of subsidy, since the proposed service wouldn't resemble the one it thought profitable.

Plan No. 2, which doesn't really overlap with the original Blue 22 scheme, is Mayor David Miller's "Transit City," which calls for a much slower light-rail line, partially tunnelled, along Eglinton Avenue. This line could be extended out to Pearson, although airport officials aren't precisely sure how the streetcars would enter the airport. It is safe to say the glacial pace of these things means there is lots of time to figure all of this out before tracks are laid.

If both an express train from Union Station, and a slower, frequently stopping light-rail line along Eglinton, appear in the quasi-distant future, the cab ride to the airport could become optional again. But with Toronto's luck, these projects would be completed just as the world, trying to fight climate change, finally cracks down on air travel.

Dr. Gridlock appears Mondays.

jgray@globeandmail.com
 
I had always thought that the people who would generally opt to take a train instead of a cab to and from an airport are either tourists to the city or single travelers (such as those who leave for trips from the office) thus making a rail link from downtown to the airport a natural choice. I just don't see a lot of people who would be interested in taking a slow trip on an LRT down Eglinton from the airport.
 
I just don't see a lot of people who would be interested in taking a slow trip on an LRT down Eglinton from the airport.

Exactly. LRT airport link is as good as the bus link we have now. Though I'm not saying do not build rapid-transit along Eglinton - Eglinton could use a rapid transit service). However, LRT to the airport is not practical if it is the only 'link' besides the car or bus. A direct, rapid line (a few stops are ok) is needed to link Union to the Airport. IMO, the best option is a GO-run service from the Airport to Weston to Dundas West to Union all-day shuttle, with service every 30 minutes.

Just built it already.

As an side, this link will eliminate any need for a Island airport. Subsequently, Toronto should demolish it and set our sights on building Canada's greatest urban park and one of the world's best waterfronts - spanning the entire island(s). Create two fixed pedestrian and bike only bridges (I'd except street-car tracks as well, but no cars!) at the foot of Bathurst and the edge of the Portlands area near the intersection of Cherry St. and Unwin Ave - an area that should have some vibrancy and dwelling units, not to mention transit access by then. Landscape the hell out of the Island Park to include broad promenades, scenic vistas, sports and recreational venues and restaurants. Keep it open year-round; maybe install a few ice rinks or outdoor curling rinks. Prohibit any condo or tall development on the Island(s) and watch as years of complaining about blocking the lake are silenced. Do I dare dream to dream? Do I?
 
I just don't see a lot of people who would be interested in taking a slow trip on an LRT down Eglinton from the airport.

It takes thousands of staff to keep the airport running and that doesn't include the pilots, flight attendants, or locals who begin or end at the airport.

Most of these people drive or take cabs as public transit to the airport is pretty poor. Approx 2700 daily customers ride the 192 and 1,300 daily customers ride the 58 Malton from the airport.

Not huge numbers but if highway congestion continues to get worse in that area and a fully separated ROW is implemented then it could warrant 15 minute LRT service.
 
From my home in Riverdale, I doubt if taking the 504 or 505 streetcar downtown to Union Station - in order to make a 22 minute journey to the airport - would be much quicker than my usual route: a bus up Pape to the subway, then across to Kipling, and the 192 Airport Rocket. Blue 22 will be ideal for tourists and condo dwellers who live in the downtown core though.
 
Blue 22 will be ideal for tourists and condo dwellers who live in the downtown core though.

We may have already been over this a few rounds. But Blue 22 (or whatever link you can think of that is direct) is ideal all travellers and airport employees who need to access Union Station (and by extention, the entire TTC subway grid and GO train network). It is not just envisioned for those villainous condo dwellers or tourists. I'd say the link benefits business the most, as most of business is conducted downtown.

Tourism is a major industry and its impact to the economy should not be minimized. As has been noted already, the airport employees a lot of people and they would benefit from a rapid rail link as well, especially if the can transit in from other areas on the grid (GO or TTC that link to a Weston line). Condo dwellers, apartment dwellers, students, residents of Riverdale, etc, will also benefit equally from fast, convenient and ideally affordable seamless transit link to the airport. It hurts the sea of airport conference hotels. And lets not forget the children. Won't someone think of the children.
 

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