Toronto Union Park | 303.26m | 58s | Oxford Properties | Pelli Clarke Pelli

Automation Gallery said:
So whats the point, isn't most other North American stadiums empty 1/3 of the time?...

And to pw20, it is a crazy idea
if anything Toronto with 6.6 million people should be building a bigger stadium not downsizing
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Yes and no. I'm looking at the SkyDome from two perspectiveS:
1) as a baseball stadium
2) as an entertainment centre

1) As a baseball stadium it fails miserably. The blue jays averages 31,000 fans last year, leaving about 15,000 seats empty. Because of its design - it also takes up more land then needed. The hotel and its overall structure - don't add to its beauty as a baseball stadium nor do they add to the fan value (from a baseball perspective). Most baseball specific stadiums are under 45,000. PNC Park, Cleveland's Progressive Field etc... The SkyDome was overbuilt for baseball and underbuilt for NFL football.

2) Does Toronto need a bigger covered stadium... well... that's somewhat debatable (I know less about its mechanics as an entertainment venue - though I would say the ACC has done a great job attracting concerts and is a more intimate venue - few acts do stadium tours these days).

Either way - the SkyDome can't be enlarged so to your point - if we need a bigger stadium - SkyDome isn't the venue, or is it the site. If I were Rogers, who purchased the Stadium to house my baseball team (which I need because professional sports is the only reason 50% of my cable subscribers don't cut the cord) and realize that as a baseball venue its not doing a great job - why would I not monetize the land value of my useless for baseball purposes stadium? Get a smaller, more intimate baseball specific venue out of it? The question to Roger is: are they interested in being in the event management business or are they interested in being the baseball business to feed content for their cable networks. If its the latter - the fact that Toronto "needs" a bigger covered stadium isn't their issue - monetizing their current asset (ie SkyDome) for the betterment of the franchise is in their best interest.

Compared to the footprint of other baseball-only stadiums - the SkyDome takes up a significant amount of land. The SkyDome was purchased for $25M!!!!!! The land itself is worth way more than that today. One could make an argument that they could swap the land with a developer (ie Oxford) for a smaller plot of land (i.e. along Front) along with a new stadium. Allowing the developer access to a much larger plot of redevelopment land.

Again - its speculation but not crazy.
 
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The stadium had already gone through bankruptcy and Rogers bought it out of bankruptcy. Not sure about the debt associated with it or whether going through bankruptcy would have wiped out the debt.

To further my thinking - the Stadium used to be used as an extension for convention centre for shows that needed extra space (ie the Auto Show) this stopped once the south end of the convention centre was built, a larger convention centre will further make the use of SkyDome's amenity space unnecessary.
 
^ What are some other uses for stadia?

I don't think the SkyDome will ever be demolished. It's one of the landmarks of the city.
 
pw20 said:
Total unabashed speculation... SkyDome's land size is way too big for what it needs to be (a 45,000 baseball stadium). Demolish SkyDome and build a more size appropriate baseball stadium along front street, cantilevered over the tracks, provides way more development space than currently exists.
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Skydome is large for a baseball stadium, but Toronto is also the largest city in Canada/US with just one MLB team. New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago all have 2. Toronto is a third bigger than in 1990 when we were selling that place out. It was a new stadium and we had a championship team, but make the Skydome more fan friendly, field a competitive team, and do some decent marketing and they can come close to filling it again.

I doubt Rogers has the appetite for a spending hundreds of millions of dollars just to build a more aesthetically pleasing baseball stadium not to mention all the revenue they'd forgo staging concerts and big one off events.
 
dougtoronto said:
^ What are some other uses for stadia?
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When Arsenal FC left Highbury for their new stadium - the old location was turned into apartments with a grass common area where the pitch used to be.

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isaidso said:
Skydome is large for a baseball stadium, but Toronto is also the largest city in Canada/US with just one MLB team. New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago all have 2. Toronto is a third bigger than in 1990 when we were selling that place out. It was a new stadium and we had a championship team, but make the Skydome more fan friendly, field a competitive team, and do some decent marketing and they can come close to filling it again.

I doubt Rogers has the appetite for a spending hundreds of millions of dollars just to build a more aesthetically pleasing baseball stadium not to mention all the revenue they'd forgo staging concerts and big one off events.
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That's my point... they wouldn't be spending money. They'd be land swapping with oxford who would develop an integrated baseball, convention centre development. The Stadium will be used less with a larger convention centre, loss of argos, as well as more and more concerts play at the ACC.

Anyway... that's my kinda crazy, not so crazy, idea.
 
Skydome cost $570 million to build - the sale price of $25 million had to do with finding someone whom not only had a vested interest in keeping it running (rogers owns the Blue Jays) but also had the wherewithal to do so. There were very few potential purchasers and the province wanted out. Just think of the ongoing operating cost of such a facility -that was the real pill to swallow. The $25 million was simply the "consideration" so to speak.

It would cost a billion dollars to replace Skydome (Rogers Centre) and you would need more than the Blue Jays to ever even think about such a project.
 
Boston's Fenway Park and Chicago's Wrigley Field are both 100-years old. I hope they they survive 100 more. As for Skydome, not so much. In 20 or 30 years, the time may come for a billion dollar replacement for Sky... Rogers Centre. I suppose with the passage of time there may be some historic arguments for keeping it beyond its useful life.
 
PNC Park - Cost $216M. Progressive Field cost 266M in today's dollars.

Baseball only stadiums cost significantly less. SkyDome's usage as a multi-purpose venue will diminish as other buildings are built (ACC, convention centre) that are newer and are better positioned.

The Stadium will always be too big for baseball, and too small for NFL football.
 
Oxford Place is going ahead. IBI has been retained as one of the local firms working on the project. I'll provide more info once I get it.
 
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