Toronto Union Park | 303.26m | 58s | Oxford Properties | Pelli Clarke Pelli

None of those three casinos are located at prominent locations of the city. Vancouver - edge of downtown; Montreal - across from downtown; Hull - edge of downtown. So using those as examples aren't exactly fair.
Although people use examples of other big Canadian cities with casinos as comparison, and none (or very few?) of those are located "downtown".

Ok fair enough, but what about Paris and London? Aviation Club de France is situated on Champs Élysées. London has several casinos, including a Ceasars property right in Leicester Square (that'd be like TO having one at Yonge-Dundas Square).

I get the apprehension from those who don't want a casino (there are many valid concerns) but the 'no great cities have a casino in their core' argument has to stop, because it simply is not true.
 
Ok fair enough, but what about Paris and London? Aviation Club de France is situated on Champs Élysées. London has several casinos, including a Ceasars property right in Leicester Square (that'd be like TO having one at Yonge-Dundas Square).

I get the apprehension from those who don't want a casino (there are many valid concerns) but the 'no great cities have a casino in their core' argument has to stop, because it simply is not true.

Melbourne's Crown Casino is probably be what we should be comparing it too. Our two cities are similar in many ways. Their casino was built in Southbank, just adjacent to the CBD--probably the equivalent of what the Southcore/Ice/10 York will be soon be. Crown seems to have become a kind of destination for high class retailers like the "downtown" malls in Vegas. The casino planned in Toronto may be that kind of destination, rather that the U.S. rust belt examples some are mentioning.
 
Don't expect this casino to be the style of Casino Royale a-la James Bond. These developers and casino boosters are falsely projecting a glamourous attraction when in fact it will probably look like Casino Niagara and will attract the Richmond & John suburban party crowd to walk/stumble over from club district to fist pump it at the roulette tables. The high end retailers are already located in Yorkville and I don't see why they must open in that location. When you're a high roller, you don't buy ultra expensive goods just because it's beside a casino.Also, kiss the idea of raising kids in that densely populated area goodbye if a casino is located in that area Front Street.

Finally, i don't appreciate how Oxford is pitching this development as an ultimatum.."You, city of Toronto can have all this only if a Casino is attached!"
 
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Also, kiss the idea of raising kids in that densely populated area goodbye if a casino is located in that area Front Street.

Oh, come on. Merely being within a 500 metres of a casino will cause children to spontaneously combust? What possible effect would it have on them? Children are not as fragile as you think, and if people are so desperate for the aseptic suburban lifestyle, then there are plenty of suburbs that they can choose from.
 
Don't expect this casino to be the style of Casino Royale a-la James Bond. These developers and casino boosters are falsely projecting a glamourous attraction when in fact it will probably look like Casino Niagara and will attract the Richmond & John suburban party crowd to walk/stumble over from club district to fist pump it at the roulette tables. The high end retailers are already located in Yorkville and I don't see why they must open in that location. When you're a high roller, you don't buy ultra expensive goods just because it's beside a casino.Also, kiss the idea of raising kids in that densely populated area goodbye if a casino is located in that area Front Street.

Finally, i don't appreciate how Oxford is pitching this development as an ultimatum.."You, city of Toronto can have all this only if a Casino is attached!"

Good point. The casino is a good idea but there are alot of negative points to it as well. The development would be ideal without a casino as well.
 
I'm sure Oxford will build something if the casino isn't attached though not this. I wouldn't be too concerned. Having said that I see no problem with a casino. It would be a nice addition to downtown.
 
Don't expect this casino to be the style of Casino Royale a-la James Bond. These developers and casino boosters are falsely projecting a glamourous attraction when in fact it will probably look like Casino Niagara and will attract the Richmond & John suburban party crowd to walk/stumble over from club district to fist pump it at the roulette tables. The high end retailers are already located in Yorkville and I don't see why they must open in that location. When you're a high roller, you don't buy ultra expensive goods just because it's beside a casino.Also, kiss the idea of raising kids in that densely populated area goodbye if a casino is located in that area Front Street.

Finally, i don't appreciate how Oxford is pitching this development as an ultimatum.."You, city of Toronto can have all this only if a Casino is attached!"

You don't plan on tearing down a 600 suites, 4.5 star hotel to build a casino property for the clubland crowd. Jeez, way to sell the city short. Well, maybe you really don't know if you don't understand this location opposed to another much farther out from the business core.
 
"if people are so desperate for the aseptic suburban lifestyle, then there are plenty of suburbs that they can choose from"

The latest census statistics can prove that these regions are growing by leaps and bounds.
There are obviously other reasons why people move out to the burbs such as green space and affordability and another one is perceived safety. To you the burbs may be aseptic, but too many it's the lifestyle they choose and enjoy. Enough of this childish derision of each others' lifestyle choices (i.e. downtown vs. suburbs).


I have lived at the edge of the entertainment district for years and so i'm torn about this decision. I agree a casino would be a natural addition to the "entertainment district". But i'm worried about the social implications and the chance this may dilute (or overwhelm) the Toronto brand or reputation, i.e. being a creative/intellectual/community -friendly city
 
"if people are so desperate for the aseptic suburban lifestyle, then there are plenty of suburbs that they can choose from"

The latest census statistics can prove that these regions are growing by leaps and bounds.
There are obviously other reasons why people move out to the burbs such as green space and affordability and another one is perceived safety. To you the burbs may be aseptic, but too many it's the lifestyle they choose and enjoy. Enough of this childish derision of each others' lifestyle choices (i.e. downtown vs. suburbs).

That's just it: I'm not deriding other people's lifestyles, including people who enjoy going to casinos (or Entertainment District clubs). The suburban lifestyle has many advantages indeed, but my problem is with the city trying to enforce that lifestyle in the downtown core, which should offer a very different lifestyle.


I have lived at the edge of the entertainment district for years and so i'm torn about this decision. I agree a casino would be a natural addition to the "entertainment district". But i'm worried about the social implications and the chance this may dilute (or overwhelm) the Toronto brand or reputation, i.e. being a creative/intellectual/community -friendly city

I understand your concern, but because of one casino? The presence of casinos hasn't tarnished the brands or reputations of Paris, London, Berlin, Melbourne, Vancouver, Madrid, Sydney, etc. I've lived at the edge of the Entertainment District for years too, and much of the reason I enjoy the neighbourhood is that it is lively. Sure, I'm not likely to hang out at the Entertainment District clubs, but I appreciate that they appeal to some people and that they (and other amenities) provide a kind of 24-hour life that isn't available elsewhere.
 
Oh, come on. Merely being within a 500 metres of a casino will cause children to spontaneously combust? What possible effect would it have on them? Children are not as fragile as you think, and if people are so desperate for the aseptic suburban lifestyle, then there are plenty of suburbs that they can choose from.

Agreed; ridiculous all around. There is an apartment building almost next door to Caesar's Windsor with families in it, and I've yet to see any hail or brimstone.
 
"That's just it: I'm not deriding other people's lifestyles, including people who enjoy going to casinos (or Entertainment District clubs). The suburban lifestyle has many advantages indeed, but my problem is with the city trying to enforce that lifestyle in the downtown core, which should offer a very different lifestyle."

Agreed. i should not be dissin the richmond/john jersey shore crowd then. It's a lifestyle they choose.

"The presence of casinos hasn't tarnished the brands or reputations of ...."

All those cities you mention conjures up very strong images for me, enough to block out the blight of casino. Toronto on the other hand, as i much as I'm aware of our city brand, may not have that brand strength awareness among tourists and business travellers in general.

I"m still very much on the fence about a casino in Toronto. I await the report/study that will submitted to the city early next year.
 
Oh, come on. Merely being within a 500 metres of a casino will cause children to spontaneously combust? What possible effect would it have on them? Children are not as fragile as you think, and if people are so desperate for the aseptic suburban lifestyle, then there are plenty of suburbs that they can choose from.

The problem is not the effect the casino will have on kids, but rather the fact that it'll attract the very worst most obnoxious people from all over to the surrounding streets.

There's casinos in the world where this wouldn't be a problem (think Viña del Mar), but in Toronto in this location it would just hand the streets over to people who culturally don't know how to behave in an urban setting.

Every other Friday I see some idiot from the suburbs coming to clubland and verbally harassing women who are trying to walk home from work. We should be doing all we can to stop this crowd from taking over the area - not facilitating the process.

If I went over to their cul-de-sac in Mississauga and did half the things they get away with here, I would spend the night in jail. We should ask people to respect other neighbourhoods and their residents.
 
If anything, the problem with Toronto's mainstream tourist image is that it's a little dull--the stopover on the way to Niagara Falls. I very much doubt that this casino will become well-known enough to affect Toronto's image, but if it does it could likely only help in that regard. And of course Niagara Falls remains by far the most well-known tourist destination in Ontario (and maybe Canada) overseas, despite its casino.

RC8, I've lived in the neighbourhood for years so I'm very familiar with the issues described. I have a big problem with any kind of generalizing "Keep those people out of my neighbourhood" attitudes, which is one of the reasons why I'm so uncomfortable with the way many people (including our local councillor) talk about the Entertainment District. When I hear comments about people "culturally unable to behave in an urban setting," the discomfort is reinforced. That said, while some of the people (certainly not the majority) who go to the clubs, and may frequent the casino, are unpleasant, I accept that living in the downtown core of a major world city will not be as peaceful an experience as living on a Mississauga cul-de-sac.

As for obnoxious people in the streets affecting children, I'll say again that children are far more resilient than we think. Moreover, how many kids are out on the street anyway when clubs let out at 2am?
 
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If anything, the problem with Toronto's mainstream tourist image is that it's a little dull--the stopover on the way to Niagara Falls. I very much doubt that this casino will become well-known enough to affect Toronto's image, but if it does it could likely only help in that regard. And of course Niagara Falls remains by far the most well-known tourist destination in Ontario (and maybe Canada) overseas, despite its casino.

RC8, I've lived in the neighbourhood for years so I'm very familiar with the issues described. I have a big problem with any kind of generalizing "Keep those people out of my neighbourhood" attitudes, which is one of the reasons why I'm so uncomfortable with the way many people (including our local councillor) talk about the Entertainment District. When I hear comments about people "culturally unable to behave in an urban setting," the discomfort is reinforced. That said, while some of the people (certainly not the majority) who go to the clubs, and may frequent the casino, are unpleasant, I accept that living in the downtown core of a major world city will not be as peaceful an experience as living on a Mississauga cul-de-sac.

As for obnoxious people in the streets affecting children, I'll say again that children are far more resilient than we think. Moreover, how many kids are out on the street anyway when clubs let out at 2am?

Have you ever lived in a dense central residential area in a more mature city than Toronto?

There the club districts are moved further away from such areas onto outlying zones so that people have a place to act crazy without disturbing those who are just trying to live their life. The club district evolved there precisely because no one lived there at the time, which was great for all.

We should by all means have places where suburbanites and downtowners alike can go and 'party' in whichever fashion they like. This is just not the place for it any more. The people who now live here deserve to be treated with respect if we ever want to transition to a city where families live in condos.
 
Every other Friday I see some idiot from the suburbs coming to clubland and verbally harassing women who are trying to walk home from work.
So, you see one idiot, presumably labelled as a suburbanite, every 2 weeks and this upsets you? The Vatican would love to attract such a low incidence of idiots from anywhere.
 

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