Anthony
New Member
Hey guys, this is my first time posting here. I'm a real estate agent so you know.
I read a few pages back and it's just really astonishing to hear some of the feedbacks. I guess being an open forum, you have to expect the unexpected comparisions.
Firstly, you can't compare a 20yr old condo's price with a new condo. That's just unreasonable and pointless. The reasons are very obvious. Why wouldn't you compare a old car versus brand new car. Geez. Technology, building material, structure...everything is different.
Secondly, people kept comparing the Urban Design I unit as a standard price. That's quite misleading.
Take the Urban Design IV, top floor with the $12,500 discount it works out to about $615/sf. Now go compare that to One Bedford and Crystal Blu and ICE and you'll clearly see this is a BARGAIN!
One Beford has a 640sf unit on 2nd floor, the worst possible view for $432,000. Crystal Blu has a 597 sf unit on 20th floor, $459,900 and U condos Urban Design IV 680 sf lower penthouse on next to top floor for $418,650 with a great open view. It's a no brainer which is the best choice.
Plus on top of that this unit as 10 feet ceilings. U condo appliances are German and Italian made. What's stated for ICE or Fly? It's not announced which means mediocre appliances for sure.
If anyone thinks $615/sq foot in this area is outrageous then you clearly don't have an understanding of the market. I think that's a great price especially for a new condo in the best block on Bay with the low lying UofT buildings and a lot of greenery to the west. Everywhere else is either cramped like where they are building Crystal Blu back to back with The Uptown Residences. Horrible!!!!! The views from the U condos are amazing especially the west view. Clear and open with Queens Park below and the CN tower and lake is visible. I don't know. There's no new condo in that area that can beat that view (1 St. Thomas as the same view).
I think the U Condos with the price rebate is very reasonable if you compare it to the other projects IN THE AREA. Even if you go further south to the entertainment district with Tridel 300 front st and even ICE the price of the units above 30th floor is 600sf or even more because the floor premiums for those condos are $1000. It adds up the higher you go. U condo floor premiums are dirt cheap start at $250. So you can go way up and it's not that much.
Location location location. Bay & Bloor is the most expensive per square foot area for condos because it is the best location. The appreciation rate is also better than "cheaper" locations. It's about 5% growth a year from my resale comparisions versus 3-4% in other areas.
That's my opinion anyways!
Anthony Nguyen
HomeLife Gold Trade Ltd
I read a few pages back and it's just really astonishing to hear some of the feedbacks. I guess being an open forum, you have to expect the unexpected comparisions.
Firstly, you can't compare a 20yr old condo's price with a new condo. That's just unreasonable and pointless. The reasons are very obvious. Why wouldn't you compare a old car versus brand new car. Geez. Technology, building material, structure...everything is different.
Secondly, people kept comparing the Urban Design I unit as a standard price. That's quite misleading.
Take the Urban Design IV, top floor with the $12,500 discount it works out to about $615/sf. Now go compare that to One Bedford and Crystal Blu and ICE and you'll clearly see this is a BARGAIN!
One Beford has a 640sf unit on 2nd floor, the worst possible view for $432,000. Crystal Blu has a 597 sf unit on 20th floor, $459,900 and U condos Urban Design IV 680 sf lower penthouse on next to top floor for $418,650 with a great open view. It's a no brainer which is the best choice.
Plus on top of that this unit as 10 feet ceilings. U condo appliances are German and Italian made. What's stated for ICE or Fly? It's not announced which means mediocre appliances for sure.
If anyone thinks $615/sq foot in this area is outrageous then you clearly don't have an understanding of the market. I think that's a great price especially for a new condo in the best block on Bay with the low lying UofT buildings and a lot of greenery to the west. Everywhere else is either cramped like where they are building Crystal Blu back to back with The Uptown Residences. Horrible!!!!! The views from the U condos are amazing especially the west view. Clear and open with Queens Park below and the CN tower and lake is visible. I don't know. There's no new condo in that area that can beat that view (1 St. Thomas as the same view).
I think the U Condos with the price rebate is very reasonable if you compare it to the other projects IN THE AREA. Even if you go further south to the entertainment district with Tridel 300 front st and even ICE the price of the units above 30th floor is 600sf or even more because the floor premiums for those condos are $1000. It adds up the higher you go. U condo floor premiums are dirt cheap start at $250. So you can go way up and it's not that much.
Location location location. Bay & Bloor is the most expensive per square foot area for condos because it is the best location. The appreciation rate is also better than "cheaper" locations. It's about 5% growth a year from my resale comparisions versus 3-4% in other areas.
That's my opinion anyways!
Anthony Nguyen
HomeLife Gold Trade Ltd
Last edited:
lochlyn
New Member
lumiere a bargin too...then
For $321,990(after 25K discount), you get a 543 sqf 1 bed facing west at Lumiere. That turns out to be only $593 psf. (source from mls). Would that be a better bargain than Urban Design IV, considering the construction is well underway?
For $321,990(after 25K discount), you get a 543 sqf 1 bed facing west at Lumiere. That turns out to be only $593 psf. (source from mls). Would that be a better bargain than Urban Design IV, considering the construction is well underway?
cdr108
Senior Member
I guess it's a bargain if one doesn't think the others (One Bedford, Crystal Blu, 300 Front and ICE ) are over-priced in the first place.
I will give U the added feature of being amongst lower UofT buildings on the west side, but that won't last more than the next decade. The university has plans to build a few towers along Wellesley, Queen's Park and St. Mary's, but I can't recall their heights. Plus the parking lot on the south side of St. Joseph and perhaps Bistro 990 will also be developed with more towers.
Anthony
New Member
If we're not comparing the U condos with other new condos in the area, then exactly what are we trying to establish? That the price of new construction is ridiculously expensive in comparision to resale? There are people who prefer resale and there are those that prefer new. There are advantages and disadvantages to both.
But in the area you can only compare the U condos to its competition (those that are still selling units), which is One Bedford, Crystal Blu, Uptown Residences, Casa. Those are in the U condos range before you go ultra expensive with the Four Seasons Private Residence and 1 Bloor (or was 1 Bloor). Are there any cheaper preconstructions that I am not aware of that makes U condos expensive?
I do not doubt there's potential for a condo to the south, but how many years before it goes up? If it's introduced in 2 years...it will be 6 years before it goes up. It will just be another building amongst many to the south so it's not like it will really interfere with the view. The south view is so congested with buildings anyways that one more building isn't going to hurt. Atleast it's spaced out well enough.
The UofT area might be redeveloped (as you say) but they'll still not be towering buildings of 40+ floors. Probably under 10 floors. That's what I would guess. So it still not so bad.
Anthony Nguyen
HomeLife Gold Trade LTD.
But in the area you can only compare the U condos to its competition (those that are still selling units), which is One Bedford, Crystal Blu, Uptown Residences, Casa. Those are in the U condos range before you go ultra expensive with the Four Seasons Private Residence and 1 Bloor (or was 1 Bloor). Are there any cheaper preconstructions that I am not aware of that makes U condos expensive?
I do not doubt there's potential for a condo to the south, but how many years before it goes up? If it's introduced in 2 years...it will be 6 years before it goes up. It will just be another building amongst many to the south so it's not like it will really interfere with the view. The south view is so congested with buildings anyways that one more building isn't going to hurt. Atleast it's spaced out well enough.
The UofT area might be redeveloped (as you say) but they'll still not be towering buildings of 40+ floors. Probably under 10 floors. That's what I would guess. So it still not so bad.
Anthony Nguyen
HomeLife Gold Trade LTD.
Solaris
Senior Member
Daily Commercial News
Things are moving forward ~
********
CONDOMINUM BUILDING, TOWNHOUSES
Proj: 9106742-1
Toronto, Metro Toronto Reg ON
NEGOTIATED/WORKING DRAWINGS
U Condominums, Phase One, Bay St, St Mary's St, St Joseph's St, M5V
$44,000,000 est
Start: March, 2010
Complete: January, 2012
Note: Working drawings began mid-August, 2009. The mechanical system is under review and will be determined Winter, 2009. Invited Sub trade tender and construction are expected early Spring, 2010. Further update early Spring, 2010.
The mechanical system has not been finalized for this project.
Project: concrete foundation, cast-in-place concrete structural frame, curtainwall exterior, masonry exterior, proposed construction of a 45 storey condominium building with 390 units and eight three storey townhouses in two buildings. The townhouses will be built along the Northern edge of the site, facing out onto Bay and St Mary's streets. The building amenities will include a three storey glass lobby; party room; yoga studio; and 24-hour concierge service. Four levels of underground parking will connect this project with the Phase Two building followed under report number 9086768.
Scope: 400,000 square feet; 45 storeys; 4 storeys below grade; 3 structures; 401 units; 2 acres
Development: New
Category: Apartment bldgs
This report Mon Aug 24, 2009.
http://www.dailycommercialnews.com/cgi-bin/top10.pl?rm=show_top10_project&id=42cb6828f776966a7873dbaa2e2b8b4f6d40e721&projectid=9106742®ion=ontario
***********
CONDO BUILDINGS, TOWNHOUSES
Proj: 9086768-5
Toronto, Metro Toronto Reg ON
NEGOTIATED/WORKING DRAWINGS
U Condominiums, Phase Two, St Joseph and St Mary streets, Bay St, M5S
$49,000,000 est
Start: March, 2011
Complete: January, 2013
Note: Preliminary Working drawings are underway with those for Phase One. Sales and Marketing are ongoing. Invited Sub trade tender schedules for this phase will be set late 2011/2012 based on occupancy. Further update Spring, 2010.
A mechanical system has not been finalized for this project.
Project: concrete foundation, cast-in-place concrete structural frame, curtainwall exterior, masonry exterior, proposed construction of a 55 storey condominium building with 470 units adjacent to the St Michael's College Campus of the University of Toronto. Building amenities will include a three storey glass lobby in each building; party room; yoga studio and 24-hour concierge service and a landscaped European-style piazza; and a public park. Also included will be 3 three-storey buildings located north of St Basil's facing out onto Bay and St Mary's Streets. Eight townhouse units in one structure will be built with this phase. This phase will include construction of four storeys of underground parking, to be shared with Phase One, report number 9106742.
Scope: 450,000 square feet; 55 storeys; 4 storeys below grade; 2 structures; 478 units; 6 acres
Development: New
Category: Apartment bldgs; Retail, wholesale services
First report Wed Jul 23, 2008. Last report Wed Apr 01, 2009.
This report Mon Aug 24, 2009.
http://www.dailycommercialnews.com/cgi-bin/top10.pl?rm=show_top10_project&id=520c4c881e0f0bf24b76e65245a98ec88b9f6fbf&projectid=9086768®ion=ontario
Things are moving forward ~
********
CONDOMINUM BUILDING, TOWNHOUSES
Proj: 9106742-1
Toronto, Metro Toronto Reg ON
NEGOTIATED/WORKING DRAWINGS
U Condominums, Phase One, Bay St, St Mary's St, St Joseph's St, M5V
$44,000,000 est
Start: March, 2010
Complete: January, 2012
Note: Working drawings began mid-August, 2009. The mechanical system is under review and will be determined Winter, 2009. Invited Sub trade tender and construction are expected early Spring, 2010. Further update early Spring, 2010.
The mechanical system has not been finalized for this project.
Project: concrete foundation, cast-in-place concrete structural frame, curtainwall exterior, masonry exterior, proposed construction of a 45 storey condominium building with 390 units and eight three storey townhouses in two buildings. The townhouses will be built along the Northern edge of the site, facing out onto Bay and St Mary's streets. The building amenities will include a three storey glass lobby; party room; yoga studio; and 24-hour concierge service. Four levels of underground parking will connect this project with the Phase Two building followed under report number 9086768.
Scope: 400,000 square feet; 45 storeys; 4 storeys below grade; 3 structures; 401 units; 2 acres
Development: New
Category: Apartment bldgs
This report Mon Aug 24, 2009.
http://www.dailycommercialnews.com/cgi-bin/top10.pl?rm=show_top10_project&id=42cb6828f776966a7873dbaa2e2b8b4f6d40e721&projectid=9106742®ion=ontario
***********
CONDO BUILDINGS, TOWNHOUSES
Proj: 9086768-5
Toronto, Metro Toronto Reg ON
NEGOTIATED/WORKING DRAWINGS
U Condominiums, Phase Two, St Joseph and St Mary streets, Bay St, M5S
$49,000,000 est
Start: March, 2011
Complete: January, 2013
Note: Preliminary Working drawings are underway with those for Phase One. Sales and Marketing are ongoing. Invited Sub trade tender schedules for this phase will be set late 2011/2012 based on occupancy. Further update Spring, 2010.
A mechanical system has not been finalized for this project.
Project: concrete foundation, cast-in-place concrete structural frame, curtainwall exterior, masonry exterior, proposed construction of a 55 storey condominium building with 470 units adjacent to the St Michael's College Campus of the University of Toronto. Building amenities will include a three storey glass lobby in each building; party room; yoga studio and 24-hour concierge service and a landscaped European-style piazza; and a public park. Also included will be 3 three-storey buildings located north of St Basil's facing out onto Bay and St Mary's Streets. Eight townhouse units in one structure will be built with this phase. This phase will include construction of four storeys of underground parking, to be shared with Phase One, report number 9106742.
Scope: 450,000 square feet; 55 storeys; 4 storeys below grade; 2 structures; 478 units; 6 acres
Development: New
Category: Apartment bldgs; Retail, wholesale services
First report Wed Jul 23, 2008. Last report Wed Apr 01, 2009.
This report Mon Aug 24, 2009.
http://www.dailycommercialnews.com/cgi-bin/top10.pl?rm=show_top10_project&id=520c4c881e0f0bf24b76e65245a98ec88b9f6fbf&projectid=9086768®ion=ontario
Ramako
Moderator
Granny
Active Member
Anthony
A pleasure to read those last two posts of yours.
Your remarks certainly put this building's 'value' in a much clearer perspective for me.
A pleasure to read those last two posts of yours.
Your remarks certainly put this building's 'value' in a much clearer perspective for me.
DaninToronto
Active Member
haha Ramako. Great post!
I cant believe we have to wait until 2011 to see phase 2, but in the meantime, we will have Phase 1 to enjoy. Still 6 months away, but it will begin when some of the others are winding down.
I cant believe we have to wait until 2011 to see phase 2, but in the meantime, we will have Phase 1 to enjoy. Still 6 months away, but it will begin when some of the others are winding down.
downtownboi
New Member
Any word as to when the townhouses will be released?
cdr108
Senior Member
so according to this info, the cost of construction for U is ~ $110 PSF:
Phase One = $44,000,000 / 400,000 square feet;
Phase Two = $49,000,000 / 450,000 square feet.
how much would finishes cost ... $50 PSF, it can't be more than $100 ??
Can someone find the info for the land purchase?
Phase One = $44,000,000 / 400,000 square feet;
Phase Two = $49,000,000 / 450,000 square feet.
how much would finishes cost ... $50 PSF, it can't be more than $100 ??
Can someone find the info for the land purchase?
Anthony
New Member
Thanks Granny. I appreciate the compliment. I'm just throwing my 2 cents in there. There are some very knowledgeable people on here too but sometimes it gets cluttered with opinions which I feel is false or misleading. The Urban Design I price is not indicative of the U Condo project. Most of the other units with the discounts worked in are about $615/sf...and that is for the most part a better comparison. If we look at the ICE condos, prices for high floors are like $630/sf due to the more expensive floor premiums. So the U condo is not as expensive as some of the other projects. I do like the ICE condos though. And that's another project I would recommend. Some people hate the design but I find it refreshing. I have a background as a designer with an advertising firm so I live and breath design.
If anyone needs an honest real estate advisor, feel free to contact me anthonynguyen11@gmail.com
I did a report to evaluate the U condos and Ice condos and as well show resale appreciation values in the Bay & Bloor area as well as around the Yonge and Lakeshore area. If anyone is interested you can read it here:
http://www.torontocondocorp.com/report.htm
Nice to know the U condos is moving forward! I hope they're going to do something other than the renderings for the couryard plain grass areas. It's horrible! I hope it's not going to be like that.
Anthony Nguyen
HomeLife Gold Trade Ltd.
If anyone needs an honest real estate advisor, feel free to contact me anthonynguyen11@gmail.com
I did a report to evaluate the U condos and Ice condos and as well show resale appreciation values in the Bay & Bloor area as well as around the Yonge and Lakeshore area. If anyone is interested you can read it here:
http://www.torontocondocorp.com/report.htm
Nice to know the U condos is moving forward! I hope they're going to do something other than the renderings for the couryard plain grass areas. It's horrible! I hope it's not going to be like that.
Anthony Nguyen
HomeLife Gold Trade Ltd.
Last edited:
Johnzz
Active Member
Hey Anthony, nice report.
Mike in TO
Senior Member
Hi Cdr,
I'm assume that they are only refering to the materials component of the construction costs which for most high-rise projects is currently averaging in the $100 - $120 psf (or 20% - 25% of total project costs) - the materials component of the finishes would likely be included in the price listed above. Those numbers fit neatly into the calculations you've posted above.
Land is typically about 15% of the average high-rise site - although this is a premium location site, so that component may be a high portion of the overall budget.
- Mike
cdr108
Senior Member
thanks Mike.
I was assuming the construction cost quoted was for the building structure, and not including finishes like flooring, appliances, cabinetry, etc?
that's what I was referring to when I asked about cost for finishes ... the level of standard finishes aren't that impressive here except for the european kitchen appliances IIRC.
I was assuming the construction cost quoted was for the building structure, and not including finishes like flooring, appliances, cabinetry, etc?
that's what I was referring to when I asked about cost for finishes ... the level of standard finishes aren't that impressive here except for the european kitchen appliances IIRC.