Toronto Toronto City Hall and Nathan Phillips Square | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | Perkins&Will

(From my post from another thread)

The Globe has decent coverage and Barber has a decent article but sadly, they are not accessible on the web.

And even more sadly, the four designs are not on the city website (and there is no feature for public input). I find it impossible to fully understand the concepts from newspaper articles and thus I am off to City Hall sometime today to get a better understanding of the designs.

On a side note, unless the winning design has a permanent stage incorporated into the site, we will end up with the same clutter/mess that the present square suffers from (cheap looking temporary stages that are constantly being put up and taken down and moved). We need a decent permanent stage sooner than we need aqueducts or glass-enclosed public rooms with fireplaces.
 
I'm not so sure a permanent stage will be a necessity here in the future, I see dundas square taking over those duties eventually. a lower key, more rockefeller style location isn't the worst idea. In fact, I think that indoor glass covered area would be perfect. somewhere to sit and enjoy the area, watch the skaters, do some people watching, grab a hot chocolate, I just think it would be a great idea.

on the star website, there are a bunch of pictures of all the submissions, and a few as the square stands now. after seeing all of them, it really does highlight how ugly the place is now, and how much it really needs a make over.
 
I was there, and listened to all 4 presentations..
Overall, none of them struck me as, THIS IS THE ONE...
elements of the 4 could be interesting... but the notion that they will make the square worse is not true, I guess the oral presentations gets you really excited as you visually see the place transform..

Ziedler was definetly the most ambitious and "out-there" I can't seeing it happening without millions being spent on upk-keeping of their design every year..
My favorite was Plant with Baird Sampson's being a distant last..
Sampson actually added more ramps, walls, and walkways further isolating the square..it's really disgusting..

Marvel had the most interesting presentation overall, eventhough I am not really keen on their "urban forest" I see it becoming a piss-hole for young Richmond Street clubbers..

all in all, I think that Plant's would be my pick..
NPS deserves better!
 
Not a big issue for me, but why must every public square in Toronto have a permanent stage? Shouldn't the square itself be the stage? I do like the one in Dundas Square because the whole area seems like somewhat of an unapologetic and "over the top" performance space, one that is both commercial and civic, but I don't see what's wrong with the creative addition/placement of transient performance areas within public areas.
 
I found Plant to be the best of the lot as well - restrained and in keeping with the orthogonality of NPS. Zeidler's design felt crass and mall-ish, while those "objects" along Queen in Baird Sampson Neuret's design is just patently pointless. Don't even get me started about Roger Marvel's lump from hell.

That said, the permanent stage in the Plant proposal is quite gross. Can't they set up something that can disappear nicely when not needed?

AoD
 
As a Toronto's largest and most important public square and space, holding public events, it will always need a stage. Dundas Square is certainly not going change the functionality of this space.
 
ALL 4 FINALISTS LOOK

B O R I N G!!!

THEY LOOK THE SAME AND REALLY, NOT MUCH DIFF THAN THE CURRENT LOOK.

TOTALLY WASTE OF MONEY!
 
a little enthusiastic with the caps, no?

and alklay, I'm not saying there isn't going to be a need for a stage there, I'm just not sure a big permanent one is necessary.

I do believe dundas square will be much more exciting in a few years staging events. it's just a brighter, more cluttered area with access to all things youthful. I hate to say more times square, but there it is. besides, I think if you look at most of the submissions, they all have in common the fact that they're going to fill the area in with green and infill, maybe taking away from large audience gatherings.
 
Moved to Toronto Issues where NPS redesign traditionally belongs.

AoD
 
I like the Rogers Marvel plan the most. I like how it has a hill rising from the square to become level with the overhead walkway and includes amenities underneath as well as hiding the entrance to the underground parking. I also like how it puts some emphasis on making the eastern entrance a little more inviting. It keeps the square enclosed which seemed to be the goal of the overhead walkway originally but does it in a way that the enclosing elements are more useful. I would like to see what they have designed for the Queen and Bay corner, it doesn't show in any pictures online.

My complaints on the current Nathan Phillips Square would be topped with an underutilized and usually closed walkway, a eastern entrance that feels like a highway underpass, and a drab western enclosure. The Rogers Marvel plan deals with all of those items nicely.

I like the Plant proposal as well. It addresses the west side of the square and by the looks of the treehouse restaurant makes the walkway more useful. I don't see the point of the stage inside the square... I think it would be better off the square, perhaps at walkway level if it is necessary, or keep it as a temporary stage.
 
Its funny because all these plans have decent elements and very weak elements. It is hard to pick a very favourite.

PLANT ARCHITECTS: The restrained and respectful approach is both a strength and weakness. The original vision for the square is certainly not exceedingly altered...but perhaps to some degree it should be altered a little more than what Plant proposes. Their stage idea is perhaps a good example: the apparent use of concrete is in keeping with the square and the building, but it comes off as a 1960/'brutalist' addition.

But the stage as staircase is perhaps a good attempt to have that element serve two purposes.

ZEIDLER PARTNERSHIP ARCHITECTS: I was quick to write this off as a little too 'wild' but on closer inspection, I like some of the elements like the resturant up front and the extention of the water. And you have to give them credit for the non-traditional gardens on the western site. The buses along the east side is also a great idea. The planters don't excite me but that little idea can be tossed aside. And no permanent stage means hauling out the old trailer with the canopy and letting it sit there all summer in all its glory (or having the square filled with trucks and crews putting up and taking down stages all year- there must be better ways to spend money).

BAIRD SAMPSON NEUERT ARCHITECTS: Its hard to really understand this submission (enough with the night-time renderings) but what I am able to understand, does not excite me. It appears to add even more useless items to a space that could use less of them.

ROGERS MARVEL ARCHITECTS: I am conflicted as to whether the western garden element is a nice addition (a non-linear green element that offsets the other elements present) or intrusive (too high and too big and too kitch). I like the cut- away on the east side (and how that opens the space) and hope that it gets incorporated into the other designs regardless.
 
(post from another thread.)

I do believe dundas square will be much more exciting in a few years staging events. it's just a brighter, more cluttered area with access to all things youthful. I hate to say more 'times square' like, but there it is. besides, I think if you look at most of the submissions, they all have in common the fact that they're going to fill the area in with green and infill, maybe taking away from larger audience gatherings.
 
De-clutter the Square of everything added to Revell's original design as built and we've got a winner.
 
I went just now during my lunch. If you walk towards the library, there are a few great City Hall construction pics. When I was looking at the displays (there was a good crowd), Zanta crashed the party, dressed in his hat and blue pyjamas and boots, and then was quickly intercepted by security. He hung around NPS after.

Anyway, apart from some of the hokey features (like the camp fire and muskoka chairs), I liked D (Rogers Marvel) the most. It put the Churchill statue in a decent location, treated the peace garden well, and addressed the east side the best. I started with it unintentionally (it is the first one if you go counter-clockwise around the rotunda). I really hated Zeidler's plan, I also thought the Plant one was the next best.

Though the Muskoka Chairs make sense on the waterfront.
 
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