Toronto Toronto City Hall and Nathan Phillips Square | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | Perkins&Will

Casting my mind back to the summer of 1970, when I first saw the Square - vast and uncluttered by peace gardens and their foliage, ghastly metal stages, mismatched furniture and garbage bins, little kiosks for selling hideous artsy-craftsy nicknacks and root vegetables on various days of the week, statues of foreign politicians, plinths with signs telling us that this is the Speaker's Corner and that here, and presumably only here, because we are good little Canadians, can we express ourselves without being dragged off to jail like people are in lesser countries etc. - I breathe a huge sigh of relief at the thought of sweeping away all this dreck and returning the Square to its original grandeur as an elegant, neutral ground for the citizens of Toronto to use without feeling they must behave only in certain ways because of the limited and well-defined set of required uses that have been programmed into the space by the clutter of built ( or rather cobbled together )interventions.

And, to actually rebuild the Square, so that it can be enjoyed as the architect originally designed it to be enjoyed, seems like a wonderful, added bonus!
 
Maybe it's too ambitious (and not part of this project), but it would be nice if that whole section of Queen, running in front of the city hall buildings, was spruced up.
 
Maybe it's too ambitious (and not part of this project), but it would be nice if that whole section of Queen, running in front of the city hall buildings, was spruced up.

I agree. It should be part of the plan.

Having been there just yesterday, the whole area really needs some work.
 
If the elevated walkway is moved south, the manner in which the enlarged Square meets Queen Street would inevitably be front and centre of the redesign process.

I think the elevated walkway creates two realms - within the walls and without the walls if you like. By moving the walkways out to the perimeter, the Square will "lassoo" the dead space along Queen and make it part of something nobler.
 
And even if the walkway wasn't moved, I'd say the consensus already was that the real problem wasn't with the square, or with the walkway, but with what lay beyond it, i.e. all those anemic grassy areas, etc.

So it isn't that it "should be"--I'll assume it already is, implicitly...
 
unimaginative2: "What the hell?! Did Nate Phillips' grandson run over your dog or something? Why do you feel the need to do everything you can to smear the legacy of one of Toronto's greatest leaders?"

LOL, I assure you I have no grievance with Nathan Phillips. Would I suggest a commemorative statue to somebody I'm trying to 'smear'? Still, this hyperbole does show me that you lack objectivity.

adma: "It's petty. Just leave him be."

Well it's not petty when the issue raised here is the renaming of the square.

adma: "Okay. Beyond that unfortunate whiff of "Toronto ought to be world class like Paris..."

Oh dear, we are sensitive here aren't we? Clearly adma has amazing McCarthy-like olfactory senses...oops sorry, does the American reference whiff to you of "Toronto ought to be world class like New York"?

adma: "That symbolism's as old hat as commemorating ol' Nate Phillips in Toronto."

All societies have symbols and mythologies that structurally tend to work in similar ways...but don't believe me; you can refer to Levi-Strauss (hmmm, as a Frenchman I wonder what he would make of your assessment of the relationship of the French to the structuralism of urban symbology in France?).

On the issue of NPS, the one argument I would turn on/against myself would be that regardless of the specific importance of Nathan Phillips, objectively speaking, it is the meaning and significance that we confer on him, collectively as a society, that is far more important than the actual reality of the man in question. However, this only makes sense to me if the alleged symbolism in question does register some perceivable widespread and collective meaning; even if it is only of the "rolling-of-eyes-and-groaning" type of meaning...but, if as adma insists, the French are in fact indifferent to "Place de la Concorde-type" symbolism I can only speculate as to the reality of how the average Torontonian must react to Nathan Phillips.

"Getting back to the redesign of NPS (now that the whole idea of renaming the square has been soundly rejected)"

spmarshall speaks for the city and declares the topic closed. Illusions of grandeur notwithstanding, that is probably not a bad idea. I am more than happy to continue on with the name as is, but do sincerely hope that the square will get the full make-over treatment it should.
 
I've noticed that the walkways have reamined opened throughout the year and people are once again discovering it. Everytime I bring someone up there, they are amazed that 1) you can walk up there, as it is always closed and 2) the view of the city is spectacular.

It was completely filled during the Cavalcade of Lights. I hope it continues that way in the future.

Louroz
 
Louroz: I was down on opening night of the Cavalcade, just like you were, (I'm just mentioning that for eveyone else's benefit), and yeah, I was really glad to be up on the walkways to watch the light show on the walls of Old City Hall.

HOWEVER, when I went back the following Saturday evening, the walkways were closed. Duh duh daaaaaaaaaaah! I was rather disappointed.

42
 
BTW tudararms, the fundamental problem with what you're saying is that, well, it might make for a useful term paper. But to apply term-paper abstraction to reality in this manner is heavy-handed, pretentious, and woefully insensitive. "Lookit me, I'm intelligent! I'm questioning the naming of Nathan Phillips Square, citing sources where necessary! Don't I deserve an "A", professor, huh huh don't I?"

Get a little more seasoning. And to suggest that a statue will do; well, esp. given how visceral Nathan Phillips' name has become, that's the commemorative equivalent of architectural facadism--or maybe more to the point, those 60s schemes to keep only the tower of Old City Hall...
 
$6 million renovation of City Hall planned

I think that the new committee rooms are desperately needed. The current ones have terrible sight-lines, it's very difficult to hear, and they're always overcrowded.

==============================================

$6M City Hall reno blasted as needless

Plans spotted in the fine print of capital budget

Feb 10, 2007 04:30 AM
John Spears
Jim Byers
city hall bureau

After months of bewailing its financial plight, the City of Toronto proposes spending $6.2 million on City Hall renovations to create new committee rooms, build a media studio and consolidate Mayor David Miller's staff in offices overlooking Nathan Phillips Square. The previously undisclosed renovations showed up in the fine print of the city's capital budget, released Thursday.

Councillor David Shiner – who will be shifted from his office to make room for the mayor's staff – said the spending undercuts the city's argument that it needs more funding.

"We're telling the provincial and federal government that we can't afford to maintain the infrastructure of the City of Toronto, and yet we have almost $7 million for renovations to the mayor's office, and to add a couple of committee rooms," said Shiner (Ward 24, Willowdale).

"How can we go to the province and say we need help, and how can we go to the feds and say we need help, when we're renovating our house for what seems to be unnecessary work?"

The renovations have never shown up in the city's five-year capital budget plan, he said, yet the spending will occur over the next two years.

Miller was in Ottawa yesterday, talking with other mayors about getting a better deal for cities. He said the renovations were not part of the city's long-range budget plan "but the idea of building the committee rooms dates back (for some time)."

"There's a clear need for rooms for the police board, the transit commission and the board of health to meet, and that necessitates the clerk's moving from the second floor and my office staff being moved," he said. "It's obvious that the mayor's office should be in one place if it's possible," he said.

"If my staff has to move it makes sense to put them in one place."

Miller said he's not satisfied with the cost.

"From my perspective, there needs to be some more work done on that," he said. "I asked staff to sharpen their pencils."

The renovations were triggered by the city's facilities and real estate department, which says more committee rooms are needed "as a result of the city's new governance structure," according to budget documents.

Creating new committee rooms displaces some of the mayor's staff, who in turn will displace the councillors.

Miller also said yesterday his office staff is increasing – to perhaps 23 people from its current 18. Miller has ordered all departments to freeze operating budgets, but said his office needs more staff due to increased responsibilities under the City of Toronto Act.

A detailed breakdown of where the $6.2 million will go wasn't available yesterday. But part of it will be spent to build a "community media studio" – a venue for news conferences.

With the two new rooms, the city will have four large committee rooms, each capable of seating 20 councillors, two dozen staff and 65 members of the public. They'll be equipped with microphones and closed-circuit TV cameras.

Councillors who will lose their offices to the mayor's staff are David Shiner; Gloria Lindsay Luby (Ward 4, Etobicoke Centre); Cesar Palacio (Ward 17, Davenport); John Filion (Ward 23, Willowdale); and Joe Mihevc (Ward 21, St. Paul's).

They'll move into other second-floor offices now occupied by civil servants.

Lindsay Luby (Ward 4, Etobicoke Centre) said she heard about the proposed move only by "a fluke."

"I'm obviously not happy, but that's neither here nor there for the taxpayer," Lindsay Luby said in an interview.

"I really enjoy my office, I'm very unhappy about it, and moreso when I see the expense involved."

"I'd like to see a Plan B which would save our office space and accommodate the needs of the mayor's office," she said. "And I don't think anybody's put their mind to it."

Lindsay Luby will move into an office on the north side of City Hall. Her view includes the back end of a Toronto Hydro station, a parking lot, and a two-story building with concrete siding.

Budget details also show a previously unannounced expense of $300,000 for setting up the new lobbyist registry and renovating office space on Elizabeth St. behind City Hall.
 
If there is such a lack of space at City Hall, then perhaps an extension or an "annex" could be built in Nathan Phillips Square (and we would draw the ire of the Modernism purists). The entire west side of the square is very lightly used, so that area seems to have the greatest potential for such a building.

Of course, the city will have to call a design competition for that project.
 
... or they could add a dozen floors on the curved towers of City Hall.

Isn't NPS design competition slated to reveal the contenders' proposals this month?
I believe I heard that once Old City Hall's restoration was complete, they'd move to cleaning and restoring New City Hall as well. I wonder if this is part of the NPS initiative, this $6M reno or something else entirely.

Either way, New City Hall needs a good scrubbing.
 
wylie:

Or if money isn't an issue, completely remove the parking garage from underneath the square and push it a few levels down - then have B1 and B2 used as additional program space. Light could be let into the perimeter via glazed openings directly underneath the walkways...

AoD
 

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