Niagara Falls The Stanley District | ?m | 22s | La Pue International | ACK

[Refresh3377]

The Developers have put up their two other sites for sale including their 77 stories project if they sell hopefully this project will be completed otherwise this was all another rezoning scam and/or Syndicate Mortgage Scam .
Niagara Falls has ton of potentials and Needs
Only reputable Toronto Developers Material in order to be built as world class destination.
These Skimming and Scamming from the Local Developers will get the city nowhere .
Hopefully this project gets built and restores some trust in all the other proposals around Stanley that haven’t come to fruition.

I saw the signs on the Allendale property and wondered what was up. $15 million for some empty land - sheesh. Victoria ave. property is $18 million - sheesh.

Even if both do sell I doubt that money would get them very far on the Stanley District. I think Niagara Falls has a nice new dirt pit for the foreseeable future. Time will tell.

 

[Towered]

The Developers have put up their two other sites for sale including their 77 stories project if they sell hopefully this project will be completed otherwise this was all another rezoning scam and/or Syndicate Mortgage Scam .
Niagara Falls has ton of potentials and Needs
Only reputable Toronto Developers Material in order to be built as world class destination.
These Skimming and Scamming from the Local Developers will get the city nowhere .
Hopefully this project gets built and restores some trust in all the other proposals around Stanley that haven’t come to fruition.

You need to accept that there is NO DEMAND for highrise living in Niagara Falls. Take a look around - walk just a block or two from the few areas that are gaudy tourist traps and the city is a total dump.

 

[Northern Light]

You need to accept that there is NO DEMAND for highrise living in Niagara Falls. Take a look around - walk just a block or two from the few areas that are gaudy tourist traps and the city is a total dump.

Ok, I'm going to have to disagree.

Extrapolating from some 'failed' developments that were either borderline or outright fiction; that were extreme in scale and cost; and read as zone and flips from day one...........to 'There is no demand' is not a reasonable connection.

I know a Toronto physician who bought a condo in Niagara for himself as he was approaching retirement and working less in the City.

There is demand. However, that demand is not going to justify 50s + across multiple sites, typically by some mixture of zone and flippers and inexperienced would-be builders who are in over their head.

It would support, I would argue, more prudent 20-39s builds, not a lot, but a few, correctly positioned, and marketed, by experienced builders.

*****

Lets look at where demand in Toronto originates:

- Population growth (general)
- Investor Boxes (often aimed to be rented, particularly to students, so driven by nearby universities and colleges; as well as hotel substitutes (short-term rental)
- Live-in residents (limited market as condos; but good market as purpose-built rental)
- Empty nesters (looking to cash out on houses worth a lot of $$)

Lets then take a look at Niagara to see how this plays out

- Population Growth - check (but at a slower pace than the core GTA)
- Students (yes, but less, and not located anywhere near a 'Falls view' location.
- Live in residents (there is a market, but its certainly not the size of Toronto's, nor does the applicable demo have as high a median income)
- Empty Nesters ( not so much, because you haven't seen the same degree of property appreciation that demands a cash-out)


All of the above means, that you generally need a more modest proposal in costs to feed the majority of the market.

Housing with good connections to Brock University or Niagara College have greater potential.

Is there a market for 'luxury' falls view skyscrapers? I would say there is a very small one now, and one that could be enlarged; but you need not only the right builder and building, but material improvements
in the area(s) where you might site these, in order to attract a greater range of deep pocketed buyers.

If I've got money burning a hole in my pocket, a view of the Falls doesn't sound bad........but where am I getting my high-end groceries? Where am I going to dinner out? Where are my kids going to school (high end public or elite private); is the public realm in the right place for this buyer? (not now).

The potential is there; but gov't and the sector would need to make investments and then market appropriately.

The desire for an educational campus next to the VIA Station, near the historic downtown, with permissive zoning, will likely pull some interest.

But lots more to do to get serious proposals of scale to move forward.

A one-off isn't out of the question........but borderline.

 

[Bojaxs]

If a high-rise were built in Niagara Falls, I reckon most of its units would be purchased by RE investors looking to turn them into Airbnbs for people going to the casino.
The casino attracts too much hoopla and degeneracy, and destroys the "livability" of the area surrounding it. Who wants to live off of Lundy's Lane? Any development would have to take place north of the 420.

 

[merigalvez]

I saw the signs on the Allendale property and wondered what was up. $15 million for some empty land - sheesh. Victoria ave. property is $18 million - sheesh.

Even if both do sell I doubt that money would get them very far on the Stanley District. I think Niagara Falls has a nice new dirt pit for the foreseeable future. Time will tell.

It’s known nowadays people with contacts get land rezoned and approved ready for digging and sell it to real builders and make a good flip .

But what I could not figure out with this project
Is …if their money really dried up or it was a sham from the beginning because it had none of the of the traditional ways of how a condo project should sell including Marketing , phone answering etc .
I might be wrong but time will tell .

 

[merigalvez]

You need to accept that there is NO DEMAND for highrise living in Niagara Falls. Take a look around - walk just a block or two from the few areas that are gaudy tourist traps and the city is a total dump.

Niagara Falls Has something that no other small City Has which it’s name as it’s known Worldwide unlike Burlington , Oakville etc .
Just a reinvention of the tourists side of business would bring crazy international demand if built right .
Not To forget is the only close getaway from our major population which is Toronto.
as well as livable option for Canadian residents.
The motto is Build it and they will come .
But I think Niagara Falls problem is the old timers there don’t wanna let go and that’s why big corporate builders haven’t stepped in yet .
But eventually the city will see better days .

 

[rbt]

The motto is Build it and they will come .

The challenge is concrete/steel high-rise construction is $500/sqft in non-GTA Ontario. That doesn't include land, legal, architect, engineering, or any other fees. Just what you would pay the contractor to build and finish it. Also, this cost increases for tall buildings over about 30 floors.

A developer, to break-even, needs to charge at least $800/sqft.

So, for $800,000 you can get 2-bed 1000 sqft high-rise unit facing away from the Falls (good views sell at a premium) and $1000/month maintenance fees OR you can drive 5 minutes away and get a 4-bed 2000 sqft house with $500/month heating/cooling, etc. fees.

The reason Niagara Falls doesn't build high-rise residential really is that the value isn't there for 90% of the units. Only about 10% of units actually has a view worth paying a premium for.

 

[merigalvez]

I only would agree with you if your referring to some kind of affordable housing but
Realistically Speaking I don’t think that these 77 Story proposals and such are aimed to achieve affordable housing or aim any local residents I think.

Why These Project don’t take off ? I only can guess .

Either A the developers are waiting
for the land Values to go even Lower by depressing the city .

Or there is some kind of turf disagreement between the people in charge of the hotels
And businessess around who make it difficult for Big Time Developers to move in and make another Vegas or even Dubai .

Building Cost is High Everywhere I don’t think
Our Government is making this huge Building plans and not put any incentives in place our premier Dougy should Know

Ps .it’s not only the View that will attract buyers is the grand package that Niagara Falls will come with .

 

[Northern Light]

I only would agree with you if your referring to some kind of affordable housing but
Realistically Speaking I don’t think that these 77 Story proposals and such are aimed to achieve affordable housing or aim any local residents I think.

Why These Project don’t take off ? I only can guess .

Either A the developers are waiting
for the land Values to go even Lower by depressing the city .

Or there is some kind of turf disagreement between the people in charge of the hotels
And businessess around who make it difficult for Big Time Developers to move in and make another Vegas or even Dubai .

Building Cost is High Everywhere I don’t think
Our Government is making this huge Building plans and not put any incentives in place our premier Dougy should Know

Read up, I already explained why these particular proposals are unlikely to move; @rbt also chimed with good info on costs.

Yes there is a market in the Falls for hirise building, but the market for luxury, either to reside in or to rent out to tourists is much more limited.

There might be room for one of these on the market, or at least in a lower-interest rate environment; but even then, there are real challenges.

'The Falls' is not Yorkville or Forest Hill.

Don't hold your breath waiting for any of these to go forward in the near term, it will make you blue.

 

[Towered]

I only would agree with you if your referring to some kind of affordable housing but
Realistically Speaking I don’t think that these 77 Story proposals and such are aimed to achieve affordable housing or aim any local residents I think.

Why These Project don’t take off ? I only can guess .

Either A the developers are waiting
for the land Values to go even Lower by depressing the city .

Or there is some kind of turf disagreement between the people in charge of the hotels
And businessess around who make it difficult for Big Time Developers to move in and make another Vegas or even Dubai .

Building Cost is High Everywhere I don’t think
Our Government is making this huge Building plans and not put any incentives in place our premier Dougy should Know

Ps .it’s not only the View that will attract buyers is the grand package that Niagara Falls will come with .

What's "The Grand Package"?

 

[merigalvez]

I don’t have to hold my breath because I don’t have any interest in it .

As far as them not going up we both our saying the same thing.
But not because of Demand.
Is Either incompetency or simply put “crooks”that never meant to build it .
Simple as that .

 

[merigalvez]

What's "The Grand Package"?

You know how you see mini downtowns everywhere in Toronto now days that’s a grand package.
Big Guys get together and split their work over the years not just one project in the middle of crack houses .

 

[rbt]

I only would agree with you if your referring to some kind of affordable housing but
Realistically Speaking I don’t think that these 77 Story proposals and such are aimed to achieve affordable housing or aim any local residents I think.

If you build a 600 unit building, only about 100 of those units will have a view of the falls. Unobstructed sites don't really exist so many units facing the falls will be viewing another building. The other 500 units will need to be affordable because tourists aren't going to pay a premium for those.

Hotels in that area regularly severely discount the north facing units and struggle financially too. There's a reason why it's been 14 years since a new hotel build despite decreasing competition as motel style places slowly close.

 

[merigalvez]

If you build a 600 unit building, only about 100 of those units will have a view of the falls. Unobstructed sites don't really exist so many units facing the falls will be viewing another building. The other 500 units will need to be affordable because tourists aren't going to pay a premium for those.

Hotels in that area regularly severely discount the north facing units and struggle financially too. There's a reason why it's been 14 years since a new hotel build despite decreasing competition as motel style places slowly close.

The View Is Not Everything

Niagara Falls Needs more of a ReBranding /rebuilding and after marketed Worldwide.
Why Lose the name which has been romanticized since the 1930 or earlier and line up just as another small town .

Whoever will revive Niagara Falls needs
to put a proper a Shopping Mall , bring in international brands , lots of Marketing etc .
And those 500 rooms will flyoff.
You might say that , you will need deep pockets for that .
Yes that is true.
But like someone else said the government sector need to step or coordinated effort by the reputable builders to fix as a whole in which I think they will ,
Because I don’t see any other town as a good candidate to be a grand tourist attraction
Like Vancouver has Whistler and all the other big cities that bring billions of dollars through tourism .

Right Know I agree with you.
if those people building who are supposed to build these proposals are relying on costumers deposit And mediocre investors to build those towers nothing will take off and there will be just a dirt pit and a hole without the the proper venues around first that I mentioned.

Yes I would be iffy too to purchase anything there with just a a casino and a few outdated businesses.
As far as the Niagara Falls of the student s , residents and Seniors that’s another avenue
That Mayor Diodati is doing a very good job but it will take Time .

So Yes There is a huge Demand for Entertainment in Canada as a whole
because sometimes it feels like a giant Factory and so much you can do on our vast wilderness .

 

[Johnny Au]

The View Is Not Everything

Niagara Falls Needs more of a ReBranding /rebuilding and after marketed Worldwide.
Why Lose the name which has been romanticized since the 1930 or earlier and line up just as another small town .

Whoever will revive Niagara Falls needs
to put a proper a Shopping Mall , bring in international brands , lots of Marketing etc .
And those 500 rooms will flyoff.
You might say that , you will need deep pockets for that .
Yes that is true.
But like someone else said the government sector need to step or coordinated effort by the reputable builders to fix as a whole in which I think they will ,
Because I don’t see any other town as a good candidate to be a grand tourist attraction
Like Vancouver has Whistler and all the other big cities that bring billions of dollars through tourism .

Right Know I agree with you.
if those people building who are supposed to build these proposals are relying on costumers deposit And mediocre investors to build those towers nothing will take off and there will be just a dirt pit and a hole without the the proper venues around first that I mentioned.

Yes I would be iffy too to purchase anything there with just a a casino and a few outdated businesses.
As far as the Niagara Falls of the student s , residents and Seniors that’s another avenue
That Mayor Diodati is doing a very good job but it will take Time .

So Yes There is a huge Demand for Entertainment in Canada as a whole
because sometimes it feels like a giant Factory and so much you can do on our vast wilderness .

What Niagara Falls needs is a real amusement park and Marineland needs a new owner with a vision and a very large budget to make it be a real amusement park capable of competing against the likes of Canada's Wonderland to the north, Darien Lake to the east, Kennywood to the south, and Cedar Point to the west. Right now, Marineland is struggling even against the very small Niagara Amusement Park across the river.