Toronto The One | 308.6m | 85s | Tridel | Foster + Partners

Big Daddy said:
I for one am very disappointed that this exciting proposal has been chopped to mere mortal status. For once in a very long time a developer has the temerity to propose something bold and daring, something very suitable for the most important intersection in Canada and when it gets chopped - as seems to be the inevitable fate of any great proposal here - you accept it without any fight or resistance. Your non-reaction is far more disappointing even than the reduction of this project. You're like a jar of fleas that have been trained to only jump so high and never expect or dream of more. Throughout this massive building boom we've experienced, there have been precious few projects to get excited about - the vast majority being nothing more than a large swath of underwhelming apartment buildings. Once in a rare while someone is daring enough to push the envelope and when the plan is reduced, this crowd sits back and accepts it like children afraid of being scolded for speaking out. Well bravo for your brave and unrelenting defense of a one hour shadow over a dog park. This building may look fine when it is done, but like the rest of this city's architecture, it will be neither outstanding or nor memorable - not "The One" but just Another One.
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I usually don't reply to things like this, but I feel compelled to respond to this... Big Daddy - since you care so much and are calling out others - exactly how many public meetings did you attend? How many public deputations did you make? Better yet how many units are you buying or what are you investing to make this happen?? nothing eh...

And to ksun and the endless height obsessions... you may have noticed that 553 meter tower near the lake that was the tallest freestanding structure in the world for about 30 years which apparently may have impressed a few people over the past few decades... not sure if that would have made Toronto circa 1977 one of the world's greatest cities according to you criteria, but Toronto circa 2016 seems to be doing well on lists that mater to people such as livability, economy etc

Lastly re the project itself and the 10% or so reduction in height... I'll state again that this proponent driven action likely has a lot more to do w viability of the project than the approvals process...
 
Mike in TO said:
And to ksun and the endless height obsessions... you may have noticed that 553 meter tower near the lake that was the tallest freestanding structure in the world for about 30 years which apparently may have impressed a few people over the past few decades... not sure if that would have made Toronto circa 1977 one of the world's greatest cities according to you criteria, but Toronto circa 2016 seems to be doing well on lists that mater to people such as livability, economy etc
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I know the CN Tower had its opponents when it was first proposed... I can't help but strongly believe that if it were proposed today it would not make it through the planning process or would elicit stronger opposition.. I'm not a height fanboy, but I think there is some truth to Toronto being a slightly timid city when it comes to tall skyscrapers or bold proposals.
 
So Toronto wasn't "slightly timid" when the CN tower was initially proposed but it's somehow become slightly timid over time? Really?
 
Mike in TO said:
And to ksun and the endless height obsessions... ...
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If you want to drag me into this and somehow humiliate me, at least read my previous posts carefully. In exactly where did I show the slightest "height obsession"? I specifically said I don't care if this building is reduced to 200m as long as it is a nice designed one, and laughed at those who cry over a loss of an insignificant 37m as if that makes a gigantic different to their self-esteem. I didn't exactly move from Shanghai to Toronto for the amazing skyscrapers here, did I?

Tewder said:
Are you even in Toronto?

... and how are asian cities with super-tall/horrible pedestrian realm combinations of any relevance to Yonge and Bloor?
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someone else mentions Asian cities, so I responded. You probably should have read more careful before throwing cheap attacks at me. And for the record, I never said Asian cities have horrible pedestrian realm, only certain areas. Shanghai and Tokyo for example have way more nicely designed pedestrian streets than Toronto can imagine in 20 years. They literally have 100 areas that work like St Lawrence Market/Kensington Market area. The car dominated zones are more of a recent development, outside central city. But apparently you don't know much about them at all, assuming they all look like Dubai.
 
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Stupidandshallow said:
I know the CN Tower had its opponents when it was first proposed... I can't help but strongly believe that if it were proposed today it would not make it through the planning process or would elicit stronger opposition.
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Agree that it likely would not be built in today's climate. I can't even envision it being proposed.
 
Serious question- Do you guys honestly believe that this rookie developer with a mixed history and very limited experience (and resources) can really pull this off? This has to be one of the most complicated builds in the city, am I right? For the price he paid for the land and the complexities of the site there's just no return here. I get there's a retail play but look across the street, with better layouts and a much bigger footprint and floorplate, and you don't find high end retailers. You find the utilitarian sort that pervades this area.

Good luck to him in any case, I do like to pull for the underdog, but I just don't see it happening.
 
ksun said:
someone else mentions Asian cities, so I responded. You probably should have read more careful before throwing cheap attacks at me.
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You wrote, and I quote...
"I totally agree Shanghai's Luijiazui where most the tallest towers stand has horrible pedestrian experience. I avoid that area by all means because it is so sterile.
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Based on that it is not a stretch to extrapolate that you are writing from there, that along with your relentless preaching about Asia.



Lenser said:
So Toronto wasn't "slightly timid" when the CN tower was initially proposed but it's somehow become slightly timid over time? Really?
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To be fair Lenser I do feel there was a certain spirit of optimism and ambition in Toronto during the post-war era and right up to the 70s. NPS, The Eaton Centre, The CN Tower, Ontario Place etc. etc. This was a major transformative period of investment, development and growth. Corners were not cut at all.

In some ways I do feel there is more actual confidence in the Six today, more of a sense of identity. The political/funding morass just doesn't seem to be in line with the cultural moment here!
 
I'd argue that that boundless optimism for the future also resulted in the destruction of wide swathes of downtown, the building of high rise slums like St. Jamestown and caused the overexpansion of the subway network into the suburbs (not that it didn't make sense to expand outward as it resulted in the neglecting of the downtown network). The optimism was great but also incredibly destructive.
 
Stupidandshallow said:
I know the CN Tower had its opponents when it was first proposed... I can't help but strongly believe that if it were proposed today it would not make it through the planning process or would elicit stronger opposition.. I'm not a height fanboy, but I think there is some truth to Toronto being a slightly timid city when it comes to tall skyscrapers or bold proposals.
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Except that the current pipeline of approved projects (if not projects completed and under construction) more than match the controversial skyscraper projects of its' day - I mean, just look at the boom from the past decade - it certainly doesn't suggest timidity (other than the quality of the designs). Also, what cities are you comparing Toronto against? Most in North America doesn't come close to matching what we had up/in the process of putting up - the only reasonable comparator is NYC - and NYC is always a special case.

AoD
 
Anyone here been to Paris? Anyone? Someone built a monstrosity named Tour Montparnasse a couple of decades ago. The city declared it an eyesore and the put a ban on tall buildings of any sort save the west end's La Defense. The tallest structure in the city is Eiffel at 324m with Tour First being the tallest building at a paltry 231m. Almost 70m less than First Canadian Place, and shorter than six other Toronto buildings (soon to be many, many more). Our tower is taller and our buildings are taller. Hermitage Plaza—the tallest building in the EU—is currently being proposed for La Defense, and when it's finished in five years or so, it'll still be 20m shorter than the newly-shrunk The One.

Does anyone think Paris feels inferior in any way to Toronto, New York, Chicago or anywhere else in the world? The trick is they don't care. Nor should anyone in this city. The inferiority complex needs to stop.
 
zang said:
Anyone here been to Paris? Anyone? Someone built a monstrosity named Tour Montparnasse a couple of decades ago. The city declared it an eyesore and the put a ban on tall buildings of any sort save the west end's La Defense. The tallest structure in the city is Eiffel at 324m with Tour First being the tallest building at a paltry 231m. Almost 70m less than First Canadian Place, and shorter than six other Toronto buildings (soon to be many, many more). Our tower is taller and our buildings are taller. Hermitage Plaza—the tallest building in the EU—is currently being proposed for La Defense, and when it's finished in five years or so, it'll still be 20m shorter than the newly-shrunk The One.

Does anyone think Paris feels inferior in any way to Toronto, New York, Chicago or anywhere else in the world? The trick is they don't care. Nor should anyone in this city. The inferiority complex needs to stop.
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Yeah, sure, give me Paris' vast swaths of classic midrise buildings and I will never complain about height again. Wanting your city to be ambitious is bragging rights? Hey maybe we should use their trick and not care about our city! Pack it up boys, there's no need for this forum anymore. We had a good run.

:rolleyes:
 
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