Hamilton TD Coliseum Renovations | ?m | 4s | OVG | BBB

[Mariner35]

I think Hamilton is effectively a greater-than-800k market for things like large concerts and other events, but less-than-800k for something like the AHL or OHL.

The $300 million reno is huge. It is certainly much better than the initially proposed $50 million (or somewhat more) when HUPEG was on its own. And it is a zillion times better than the idea that was floated for Hamilton's main arena to be a 6000 seat building at Lime Ridge Mall. And they have added a ton of bells and whistles. (And it will be nice to be rid of that embarrassing old scoreboard with whatever replaces it.)

My own biggest concern with the building is that it is simply space-limited no matter what you do with it. A comfortable building with an NHL capacity is typically over 600,000 square feet and TD has 450,000 or so. I hope that it now has a net increase in space to accommodate internal traffic flow.

Maybe neither here nor there, but the actual projected main arena cost for Calgary is "only" $800 million out of that $1.2 billion, and it had been estimated to be $600 million a couple of years back. The OVG people consider TD to be $150 million to $200 million in original structural value plus the reno, so TD might be a $450 million building compared to Calgary's $800 million.

The biggest emotional pain point is that while this reno is extensive and a great thing for Hamilton and way better than most of us had expected, it feels like a permanent closure to the NHL dream. That door may have been closed already, but this feels like official admission. I guess never say never though.

Hamilton's best bet may be to go all in on a PWHL team. If the Takeover Game does well and with Ottawa likely looking for a new home, the Hammer maybe a great spot for a team to flourish.

The Forge have done well, considering the overall state of the CPL, and I could see Hamilton really latching on to a team in the PW.

NHL would be huge obviously but if Hamilton becomes a place where leagues with smaller footprints can thrive I think it makes them a great alternative to Toronto, the city with 1000 sports teams.

 

[Jonny5]

Hamilton's best bet may be to go all in on a PWHL team. If the Takeover Game does well and with Ottawa likely looking for a new home, the Hammer maybe a great spot for a team to flourish.

PWHL executives have confirmed an expansion next season between two to four teams. Either two now and then two again, or all four now, they seem to have not decided that part.
Halifax has been mentioned as a possible location, but Hamilton could jump over them with this renovation, available space, and also it solves travel issues for some teams getting all the way to Halifax.
Hamilton has direct flights on Porter now between YVR to YHM, so the Goldeneyes can fly in on Friday, play Hamilton Team on Saturday, then play the Sceptres in Toronto on Sunday, then fly out back to Vancouver Sunday night or Monday morning.

 

[king10]

Agreed with everything you said.

TD Coliseum is 463,000 sq feet to be exact. To get it to NHL/NBA 600,000+ sq footage size, they would have had to add an additional level on top of the current rectangular roof concourse, that way the upper bowl had its own dedicated concourse. To be honest, I think that is still possible, but probably not worth the investment. Although what they did now should be an upgrade, we essentially get 2.5 levels of concourse(original 2nd floor, street level and 50% event level, the latter two not being utilized before for events).

 

[innsertnamehere]

The NHL dream was never real in the first place. I'm happy it's dead. Copps as you mention is too small for NHL, like it or not.

 

[Jonny5]

The NHL dream was never real in the first place. I'm happy it's dead. Copps as you mention is too small for NHL, like it or not.

It was certainly alive at the time it started.
People forget how rinky dink the NHL operated back then.
The Nashville Predators paid only $80M in expansion fees in 1998 to get their franchise and they ran it on a shoestring budget for years.

It's different today, as the league has finally dumped the more enigmatic owners and will only let in serious business professionals, but in the 90's it was totally viable on NHL standards to put a team in that arena in Hamilton.

 

[ScreamingViking]

It was certainly alive at the time it started.
People forget how rinky dink the NHL operated back then.
The Nashville Predators paid only $80M in expansion fees in 1998 to get their franchise and they ran it on a shoestring budget for years.

It's different today, as the league has finally dumped the more enigmatic owners and will only let in serious business professionals, but in the 90's it was totally viable on NHL standards to put a team in that arena in Hamilton.

I think that had the city gotten the NHL (and Joyce's turn at being a prospective owner was probably the best one we've had; I agree the league is different now... Balsillie's attempts were rather ham-fisted), we'd all be lamenting that the team had left and be talking in desperation about how to get the league to return.

 

[BCTed]

There were definitely some moments of seeming possiblilty. Tom Gaglardi, who currently owns the Dallas Stars, had every intention of buying moving the Thrashers and moving them to Hamilton, but Gary said no.

 

[BCTed]

Scotiabank Arena year in review, just as a reference point.

 

[SubHuman]

... Joyce's turn at being a prospective owner was probably the best one we've had ...

It seemed like the NHL was just looking for any excuse to reject the Hamilton bid (which had its arena already built) in favour of Ottawa, and it turned out to be the Hamilton bid responsibly saying it could pay the expansion fee in installments, which they likely would have been able to do, instead of all at once. The Ottawa bid "did not have the liquid assets to finance the expansion fee and the team, but the group conceived a strategy to leverage land development", and eventually entered bankruptcy in January 2003. There are stories saying they never did pay the initial expansion fee.

 

[Jonny5]

Scotiabank Arena year in review, just as a reference point.

A good reminder that music acts that cater to Hispanics or South Asians in their native languages actually have a huge market in Ontario and the Hamilton Arena can pick off many of those from the more expensive Scotiabank Arena.

 

[innsertnamehere]

A good reminder that music acts that cater to Hispanics or South Asians in their native languages actually have a huge market in Ontario and the Hamilton Arena can pick off many of those from the more expensive Scotiabank Arena.

case in point, Twice (K-pop) has two nights booked in Hamilton and is the only headliner to book the entire stadium capacity for TD so far.. and with two nights as well!

 

[ScreamingViking]

It looked like the NHL was just looking for any excuse to reject the Hamilton bid in favour of Ottawa, which turned out to be the Hamilton bid responsibly saying it could pay the expansion fee in installments, which they likely would have been able to do, instead of all at once. The Ottawa bid "did not have the liquid assets to finance the expansion fee and the team, but the group conceived a strategy to leverage land development", and eventually entered bankruptcy in January 2003. There are stories saying they never did pay the initial expansion fee.

I recall Tampa having some issues raising the money to get off the ground too.