Cobra
Senior Member
That's a long time to plan on how and where to paint the street - my gosh
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Toronto Surface Transit Network Plan
- Thread starter Northern Light
- Start date
smallspy
Senior Member
I've tripped a whole bunch of different studies regarding vehicle capacities and loading problems/solutions and what-have-you, but I haven't had the opportunity yet to study them in depth. I don't know specifically if they look as deep as the actual mechanical configuration of the vehicle vis-a-vis the interior space restrictions, but it strikes me that it should be something on someone's radar somewhere.
But, to a degree, we can also look back and the TTC's own experiences to help extrapolate what we might find. The TTC found that going from a high floor vehicle to a low floor vehicle lost them about 10% of the capacity of the vehicle - primarily due to the front wheel wheels now intruding in the passenger cabin and preventing their use to carry passengers, but sped up loading/unloading times by a similar margin because there was now no longer a requirement for people to walk up and down the stairs before taking a seat/leaving the vehicle. (There are other factors to take into account that make these numbers not so cut-and-dried when it comes to the real world.)
This is my understanding, and my assumption as well. I'm hoping that once I start digging into those studies that there is some actual data to support that.
Unlike buses, there is no regulatory need/requirement to build a streetcar to a "North American" standard.
So yeah, lots and lots and lots of them in places that aren't in North America.
Dan
Northern Light
Superstar
The report on this passed Executive Ctte today, with amendments:
Northern Light
Superstar
The Report has now passed Council, with a couple of additional amendments:
And
Plus:
And this:
Two dumb derail this motions from Holyday were nixed, and one dumb one from Perruzza. Moving on.
And
Plus:
And this:
Two dumb derail this motions from Holyday were nixed, and one dumb one from Perruzza. Moving on.
chrisw
Active Member
Olivia Chow's motion to speed up RapidTO busway proposals passes at Toronto city council
Mayor Olivia Chow was hoping to put the "rapid" in RapidTO at city council on Tuesday with a new motion aimed at getting more busways built across the city and speeding up the process.
toronto.citynews.ca
Chow:
nfitz
Superstar
What's the new wayfinding all about?
Northern Light
Superstar
You mean the motion concerning Eglinton? I don't know, I'm assuming he's just asking that as RapidTO rolls out that any branding, distinct shelter designs or look to the bus-only/priority lanes be harmonious.
I expect, but don't know, that the feeling is Eglinton was done on the cheap, quickly, and that subsequent routes may get more 'design' elements and the Councillor didn't want his area left out.
nfitz
Superstar
Ah - that make sense.
Though given how inconsistent TTC wayfinding is on other modes. There's still bus stops they haven't put the "new" signs on yet that they started using a decade ago. They are yet to synchronize the use of the TTC symbol at station entrances. And until a few weeks ago, there was still a 224 sign out there. The only consistency is inconsistency.
Northern Light
Superstar
A report to next week's Executive Committee seeks to identify and prioritize corridors for higher order transit:
From the above:
***
A couple of interesting graphics:
This next one shows the prioritization of corridors based on preliminary assessment. I don't think those results would surprise anyone by and large............but there are some other interesting tidbits in there, in the form of Planning Assumptions
as to where Metro/Subway extensions might go in the future:
So........look up and there are some things of note..........
The City's most favoured subway extension after Sheppard and what's under way now, is the Ontario Line North......which, they envision going to Steeles.
Meanwhile, a western extension of Line 2 and the Western Waterfront LRT rank at the bottom.
So does the Jane LRT; taking the SSE north to Markham; and the Ontario Line West.
The latter of which is envisaged as being extended to Dundas West.
From the above:
***
A couple of interesting graphics:
This next one shows the prioritization of corridors based on preliminary assessment. I don't think those results would surprise anyone by and large............but there are some other interesting tidbits in there, in the form of Planning Assumptions
as to where Metro/Subway extensions might go in the future:
So........look up and there are some things of note..........
The City's most favoured subway extension after Sheppard and what's under way now, is the Ontario Line North......which, they envision going to Steeles.
Meanwhile, a western extension of Line 2 and the Western Waterfront LRT rank at the bottom.
So does the Jane LRT; taking the SSE north to Markham; and the Ontario Line West.
The latter of which is envisaged as being extended to Dundas West.
Islington Express Bus
Active Member
That first map confirms my suspicions that the Wilson bus is the most hellishly overcrowded transit route in the city.
chrisw
Active Member
So, BRT on Kingston Rd East is high on the corridor evaluation. How would this interact with the complete street plans?
Northern Light
Superstar
Don't know, is the short answer.
I expect on Kingston Road, the program would follow the LRT plans and extract space from the ROW (current median removed, 2 dedicated transit lanes, one per direction, 2 travel lanes per direction for cars, and cycle tracks.)
Danforth, from VP To Warden I can't imaging seeing dedicated lanes as there isn't the room. At least not if Cycle Tracks go in.
goodcitywhenfinished
Active Member
Good to see these expansions entering the discussion but I am worried that staff are projecting too little transit. I don’t think a single person at city hall or even queens park has fully processed that the GTA is projected to have more people than NYC does today by 2041.
I don’t think anyone in power has truly digested the fact that Toronto will have to build transit on China-level scales and speed in order to have enough capacity by 2041.
The above listed projects have about 5-10 years at the maximum to get shovels in the ground if we want to have a usable transit system in 20 years.
Northern Light
Superstar
What are we trying to compare here?
NYC: 778km2 - Population ~8,000,000
City of Toronto: 631km2 - Population ~3,000,000
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NYC Metro Area ~ 21481km2 - Population: ~20,000,000
Greater Toronto Area - 7, 124km2 - Population - 6,800,000
Greater Golden Horseshoe - 31,500km2 - 10,000,000
*****
2041 projection has the GTA at 10,200,000
The GGH at 13,600,000
* Estimates from 2021
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Keep in mind, the City excluded all GO Transit projects, anything presumed to be in an existing rail corridor, along with Sheppard, as these are provincial projects. The provincial projects you see listed are only there to reference whether a City investment in corridor 'x' makes sense.
goodcitywhenfinished
Active Member
Perhaps LA county would be a more apt comparison which the GTA is also expected to exceed by 2041.
But my point was that if these projects are what city hall sees as long-term aspirations, rather than projects to be funded within the next 5-10 years, we are in for a very painful transit crunch.